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Old 06-07-2014, 08:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by OurBigTrip View Post
You can at DL/DCA, with a DAS.

1) That is because the majority of the ride lines at DL are not made accessible.
2) Almost all rides lines at WDW were made accessible at the design stage.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:51 AM   #17
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1) That is because the majority of the ride lines at DL are not made accessible.
2) Almost all rides lines at WDW were made accessible at the design stage.
1) I'm talking about DAS return times
2) Which has zero to do with wheelchair accessibility in the lines.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:23 AM   #18
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It's interesting that posters are now saying kiosks are a great idea when that was a huge complaint before DAS was rolled out and there were rumors of kiosks.

I wonder if the backtracking or much of it would be solved with more planning. Often, using the old system allowed people to just go without having to come up with a plan for efficiently working their way through the various lands or areas.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:47 AM   #19
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I feel like kiosk users would rather go to the ride and ride goers would rather have kiosks.

It'd be great if they could do both, but until they do planning FP times and DAS times in the same area will keep the walking minimal.
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by sunshinehighway View Post
It's interesting that posters are now saying kiosks are a great idea when that was a huge complaint before DAS was rolled out and there were rumors of kiosks.

I wonder if the backtracking or much of it would be solved with more planning. Often, using the old system allowed people to just go without having to come up with a plan for efficiently working their way through the various lands or areas.
This. Unfortunately I've heard from many people that we don't want to have to do so much planning, this is vacation, it's supposed to be a break, etc What isn't being realized is that back when the GAC was being used as an unlimited fastpass, people didn't have to plan because they were able to do so much more than regular guests in a short amount of time, but now with the GAC gone, people are realizing how much planning is involved in a Disney trip.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:59 PM   #21
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This. Unfortunately I've heard from many people that we don't want to have to do so much planning, this is vacation, it's supposed to be a break, etc What isn't being realized is that back when the GAC was being used as an unlimited fastpass, people didn't have to plan because they were able to do so much more than regular guests in a short amount of time, but now with the GAC gone, people are realizing how much planning is involved in a Disney trip.
Or maybe people with issues which require a DAS are already doing a ton of extra planning, and oftentimes that planning is for naught when their child experiences a set-back in the park. Not to mention the fact that single parents with children with some disabilities have a very difficult time explaining to their child that they are going to walk to the ride and then walk away.

It's almost unfathomable to me that people are still dickering over this. Are people seriously complaining that some child with a disability might get a five minute advantage by being able to get a return time from a kiosk instead of the ride?

And the ADA requires that Disney make things AT LEAST equal. There's nothing saying they can't do more, although the idea that being able to use a kiosks is some big advantage over non-disabled guests is almost laughable.
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Old 06-08-2014, 03:54 PM   #22
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And the ADA requires that Disney make things AT LEAST equal. There's nothing saying they can't do more, although the idea that being able to use a kiosks is some big advantage over non-disabled guests is almost laughable.
Experience shows that they can't (or shouldn't) do more. When they did (the GAC), it was so overused and abused that it was no longer sustainable.

My personal opinion is that I would like to see CMs at any ride issue return times for any ride. It would be incredibly easy (and cheap) to implement, and it would cut down tremendously on the back and forth.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:24 PM   #23
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Or maybe people with issues which require a DAS are already doing a ton of extra planning, and oftentimes that planning is for naught when their child experiences a set-back in the park. Not to mention the fact that single parents with children with some disabilities have a very difficult time explaining to their child that they are going to walk to the ride and then walk away.

It's almost unfathomable to me that people are still dickering over this. Are people seriously complaining that some child with a disability might get a five minute advantage by being able to get a return time from a kiosk instead of the ride?

And the ADA requires that Disney make things AT LEAST equal. There's nothing saying they can't do more, although the idea that being able to use a kiosks is some big advantage over non-disabled guests is almost laughable.
DAS is a tool to help navigate the parks in a manner that is as closely as possible to non-disabled guests.

The DAS is not meant to give preferential treatment.
As for whether or not disabled guests deserve preferential treatment, that is not the issue- Disney cannot give preferenial treatment because they cannot ask for proof and without requiring proof the system becomes overly used, with people using it solely to get privileges but not actually needing it, and then we end up with what happened with the GAC.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by OurBigTrip View Post
Experience shows that they can't (or shouldn't) do more. When they did (the GAC), it was so overused and abused that it was no longer sustainable.

My personal opinion is that I would like to see CMs at any ride issue return times for any ride. It would be incredibly easy (and cheap) to implement, and it would cut down tremendously on the back and forth.
I doubt they will do this as it gives preferential treatment...non-disabled people can start their wait for the ride only when they walk up to the actual line and get in. Disabled guests would be able to start waiting for their ride while they are halfway across the park. While I agree that it would absolutely make the DAS more user-friendly, it wild not be equal access and may lead to the same sort of abuse that caused the GAC to go away
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:36 PM   #25
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I doubt they will do this as it gives preferential treatment...non-disabled people can start their wait for the ride only when they walk up to the actual line and get in. Disabled guests would be able to start waiting for their ride while they are halfway across the park. While I agree that it would absolutely make the DAS more user-friendly, it wild not be equal access and may lead to the same sort of abuse that caused the GAC to go away
If Disney was that concerned about it being unfair to the non-disabled, they would hire enough people in DL/DCA to get rid of the kiosks. To me, this is a specious argument.

Using your argument about unfairness, people with a DAS shouldn't be permitted to ride any other rides while they're waiting, because non-DAS users can't do that.

Additionally, any little bit of advantage that might be given by not making guests go to the ride to get a wait time will not add to abuse of the DAS. The biggest incentive to abuse the GAC was the unlimited FP (or better) nature of the accommodation, and that's gone under the DAS.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:46 PM   #26
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If Disney was that concerned about it being unfair to the non-disabled, they would hire enough people in DL/DCA to get rid of the kiosks. To me, this is a specious argument.

Using your argument about unfairness, people with a DAS shouldn't be permitted to ride any other rides while they're waiting, because non-DAS users can't do that.

Additionally, any little bit of advantage that might be given by not making guests go to the ride to get a wait time will not add to abuse of the DAS. The biggest incentive to abuse the GAC was the unlimited FP (or better) nature of the accommodation, and that's gone under the DAS.
All I am stating is information that Disney told us when we asked about kiosks and why there was a difference between Disneyland and wdw, and they said they prefer not to use kiosks but have no choice at Disneyland due to staffing issues, but at wdw they don't have to use kiosks and this is the preferred way for them, due to keeping things equal between guests.
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Old 06-08-2014, 05:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by AndreaA View Post
Or maybe people with issues which require a DAS are already doing a ton of extra planning, and oftentimes that planning is for naught when their child experiences a set-back in the park. Not to mention the fact that single parents with children with some disabilities have a very difficult time explaining to their child that they are going to walk to the ride and then walk away.

It's almost unfathomable to me that people are still dickering over this. Are people seriously complaining that some child with a disability might get a five minute advantage by being able to get a return time from a kiosk instead of the ride?

And the ADA requires that Disney make things AT LEAST equal. There's nothing saying they can't do more, although the idea that being able to use a kiosks is some big advantage over non-disabled guests is almost laughable.
And now we are playing "pain Olympics" or my life harder than yours. You don't know how much anyone else planned for their Disney trip. The person in front of you could have decided that morning to go or they could have stated planning two or three years ago. Anyone can have their plans go wrong. The Ada requires a reasonable accommodation for equal access not at least equal. No one is complaining about one child going ahead but how many is too many - 1,5,20,100? The problem with the gac was not abuse but use.
Disneyland and Disney world are different parks built in very different times. Magic kingdom at Disneyland has many fewer accessible rides and they are closer together. There could be any number of valid reasons why a kiosk system is appropriate there but not at the larger more accessible magic kingdom in Disney world. But you hear just as many if not more complaints about the kiosks as you do about the walking up to each ride method.

The program is what it is and is not going away any time soon. Either you learn to work the new program and get the most out of your time or you don't. The choice really is yours.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:30 PM   #28
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I think the time has come to close this thread because it is beginning on the downward path all threads about this subject have ended up on before.

There are people who like the idea of kiosks and wish WDW had kiosks.
There are people who hate the idea of kiosks and wish DL did not have kiosks.

There are people who like the idea of going to the attraction to get a DAS Return Time and wish DL did that instead of kiosks.
There are people who hate the idea of going to the attraction and wish WDW did not do that.

There is no way to please everyone. It is what it is and we need to find ways to deal with it as it is now.
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