DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 12-31-2013, 08:13 AM   #16
Belle & Ariel
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We bought 150 BW points a little over 5 years ago at $80 per point so spent about $12000 plus about $500 closing.
We rented about 180 through Davids and got nearly $2000. We have vacationed a lot and at Disney prices for Boardwalk hotel we have easily had $10000 worth of hotels in the 5 years we have owned. Our contract was loaded with banked points so we have used 6 years of points.
We could sell it for what we paid now.
A couple years ago BW points were in the 70s and maybe high 60s. The original direct price from Disney was in the 60s in the late 1990s.
I think if you used 10 years and sold you might get the per point cost but the value of the trips you have taken over 10 years are worth a lot too.
We could not stay at a value resort the same number of nights we stay in DVC for the cost of our maintenance fees. We pay about $800 in dues a year and stay about 10 to 12 nights in a studio. The values are at least $100 a night and therefore would be much more.
If you wanted to sell in ten years and the market was down, you could rent your points until it recovered and then sell them.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #17
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Perhaps renting would make more sense than buying?

Renting gives you more flexibility:

- you can book any resort 11 months out if you rent points and if you buy you can only book your home resort

- if Disney offers a good deal on rack rate (40% off, free dining, etc) you can pay for your trip in cash and get this deal

- if you need the cash for an emergency you have it, and you wouldn't have to sell your DVC to get it

- if DVC prices drop in the next couple years you can buy in then

- you don't have to pay the fees to buy or the fees to sell the contract

It's possible you'd come out ahead dollars-wise by renting, and you DEFINITELY would come out ahead flexibility-wise by renting.

If VWL points were $55 like they were in Dec '12 when I bought my contract then I'd say buy, but right now they're closer to $75 and it just feels to me like right now is not a "screaming deal" time to buy into DVC.

Buying resale now will give you a "good" deal, not an "amazing" deal. I think that the added flexibility of renting outweighs the money saved by the "good" deal.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:42 AM   #18
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There are probably many better monetary investments than DVC. If you want to make money, don't buy DVC. If you want to vacation at WDW every year and usually stay in deluxe resorts or want the timeshare experience, buy DVC.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:04 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Belle & Ariel View Post
If you wanted to sell in ten years and the market was down, you could rent your points until it recovered and then sell them.
The issue is that DVC is a depreciating asset thus there's a good chance the market may not recover at any point in time. In addition, we're at a relatively high time right now, one that certainly isn't likely to continue. Thus it is my belief that anyone who buys right now is likely to get a lower overall value, even for resale, than one who buys in 3-4 years or one who bought resale a couple of years ago. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone should wait a few years to buy if DVC otherwise makes sense as the cost of waiting may be more than the higher cost of buying now but for some, waiting will be the better option. It does mean that if buying DVC is borderline, it might be better to wait and see.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DVCcurious View Post
Perhaps renting would make more sense than buying?

If VWL points were $55 like they were in Dec '12 when I bought my contract then I'd say buy, but right now they're closer to $75 and it just feels to me like right now is not a "screaming deal" time to buy into DVC.

Buying resale now will give you a "good" deal, not an "amazing" deal. I think that the added flexibility of renting outweighs the money saved by the "good" deal.
Renting is better for people that are short term DVC fans (i.e. less than 5 years of visits).

You got a screaming deal @ $55 and it may be awhile before we see that low price again. But even at todays $75, it sure beats paying $150 from Disney.


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The issue is that DVC is a depreciating asset thus there's a good chance the market may not recover at any point in time. In addition, we're at a relatively high time right now, one that certainly isn't likely to continue. Thus it is my belief that anyone who buys right now is likely to get a lower overall value, even for resale, than one who buys in 3-4 years or one who bought resale a couple of years ago. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone should wait a few years to buy if DVC otherwise makes sense as the cost of waiting may be more than the higher cost of buying now but for some, waiting will be the better option. It does mean that if buying DVC is borderline, it might be better to wait and see.
DVC for sure is a depreciating assett when looked at beginning to end, but so far, it has not behaved like that at all. OKW was about $50pp at the lowest in 1991 and then had at least 10 years or so of free tickets, now the resale price is in the $60s. So anyone that bought and still owns today has really made a great buy.

The resale market has always been strong except between 2007-2012 when it really dipped. Also, VB and HHI has always lagged the other resorts in terms of price.

We, for sure, can't say exactly what will happen, except the Disney developer prices will probably continue to go up.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #21
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Perhaps renting would make more sense than buying?

Renting gives you more flexibility:
Maybe but I personally don't think so.
For one thing if you rent you do not have control over your reservations, the owner of the points does.
We have rented a couple of times and gotten good deals but I have lived in fear that if we should have to cancel it would be a nightmare. For us and the owner.
Another factor is that rental prices are going up much faster than MFs.
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Renting is better for people that are short term DVC fans (i.e. less than 5 years of visits).
I agree with this. Renting from DVC members is really much less expensive than getting a cash reservation from Disney. But if you know you are going to go back year after year I still think buying into DVC, especially through resale, is the least expensive option in the long run.

If you are an owner you can get a good discount on Annual Passes and get Tables in Wonderland and partake in various DVC discounts.

Our last trip was a month ago. Not counting the cost of the room (AKV value studio) our out of pocket costs were $560. That was the gas to get there and back, 1 night in a hotel on the way down, all our food and we did some shopping. Not bad for a 8 night trip. We had APs and TIW and did use the DVC discounts at several places.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #22
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what about considering the type of room you are getting? We are spoiled with the kitchen in the 1BR & 2BR. I don't think we could ever stay in a regular hotel room again.
No way could I ever afford the cash price for those rooms.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:16 PM   #23
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DVC for sure is a depreciating assett when looked at beginning to end, but so far, it has not behaved like that at all. OKW was about $50pp at the lowest in 1991 and then had at least 10 years or so of free tickets, now the resale price is in the $60s. So anyone that bought and still owns today has really made a great buy.

The resale market has always been strong except between 2007-2012 when it really dipped. Also, VB and HHI has always lagged the other resorts in terms of price.

We, for sure, can't say exactly what will happen, except the Disney developer prices will probably continue to go up.
Obviously it depends on what points you pick along the way however, when you include inflation in the mix, OKW is still less now than pre construction. Still, it is like buying a new car vs a newer used one, there are ways to minimize your losses. The initial buy in for OKW was $48 pp preconstruction. We do know that DVC will continue to decline relatively speaking with some up and downs and then be worth nothing once you get within a few years of the end.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:18 PM   #24
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what about considering the type of room you are getting? We are spoiled with the kitchen in the 1BR & 2BR. I don't think we could ever stay in a regular hotel room again.
No way could I ever afford the cash price for those rooms.
But there are other ways to get either the amenities (off site) or DVC rooms (rent privately, exchange, cash with discount).
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:29 PM   #25
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But there are other ways to get either the amenities (off site) or DVC rooms (rent privately, exchange, cash with discount).
Prefer to stay on-site...but what is 'exchange' or 'cash with discount' for a DVC room? We tried to stay an extra night without points once in a 2br and it was something like $750/night
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:01 PM   #26
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Prefer to stay on-site...but what is 'exchange' or 'cash with discount' for a DVC room? We tried to stay an extra night without points once in a 2br and it was something like $750/night
I think these are some of the mistakes many make who are thinking about DVC. IMO, preferring to stay on site isn't enough. The real question whether one is willing to make a 40-50 year commitment and whether the added cost of DCV and on site is reasonable. Put another way, is it worth paying tens of thousands extra to stay on site at DVC? One of the issues that many simply don't realize or ignore is there are MANY ways to potentially get into DVC or to get similar amenities such as off site at top timeshares. One can almost always get a discount through CRO of at least 10% and often much more. One can always rent with planning and enjoy much of the DVC savings inherent to the program. In the last 13 years I've only stayed for a full stay on points once with 2-3 weeks a year and as many as 9 villas at one time. Otherwise I used points for a 5 night BWV BW view stay for my daughter and short stays using my points. I've downsized significantly.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:06 PM   #27
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Another factor is that rental prices are going up much faster than MFs.
Well....from 2001-2011 the rental price was $10 and it was rare to see it higher than $11. During that time, the annual dues went up substantially.

Then in 2012 the prices began to go to $11 and in 2013 it is common to see $12pp

So, your statement only applies to the past three years and who know if it will continue or not.

Rental prices are 100% determined by supply and demand and NOTHING else.

I have seen distressed points rent for $5pp and when there is a glut of renters the prices drop to $10.

If there was a sudden flood of rental points, the prices would go down.

During the recession, many people did NOT go to Disney and tried to rent their points and the newbies were happy just to cover their annual dues.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DVC Dude View Post
Well....from 2001-2011 the rental price was $10 and it was rare to see it higher than $11. During that time, the annual dues went up substantially.

Then in 2012 the prices began to go to $11 and in 2013 it is common to see $12pp

So, your statement only applies to the past three years and who know if it will continue or not.

Rental prices are 100% determined by supply and demand and NOTHING else.

I have seen distressed points rent for $5pp and when there is a glut of renters the prices drop to $10.

If there was a sudden flood of rental points, the prices would go down.

During the recession, many people did NOT go to Disney and tried to rent their points and the newbies were happy just to cover their annual dues.
The stimulus for raising the price of point rental was the brokers. They needed to pay the member at least as much as they would make on their own, yet make some money for themselves. Prior to the new broker model, there was no reason to raise the price. If a single member raised their price for a general public rental, someone else would undercut them. Unless they had a private rental process and plenty of interested non-members (and there were a few of them).
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by DVC Dude View Post
Well....from 2001-2011 the rental price was $10 and it was rare to see it higher than $11. During that time, the annual dues went up substantially.

Then in 2012 the prices began to go to $11 and in 2013 it is common to see $12pp

So, your statement only applies to the past three years and who know if it will continue or not.

Rental prices are 100% determined by supply and demand and NOTHING else.

I have seen distressed points rent for $5pp and when there is a glut of renters the prices drop to $10.

If there was a sudden flood of rental points, the prices would go down.

During the recession, many people did NOT go to Disney and tried to rent their points and the newbies were happy just to cover their annual dues.
Rental prices have never tracked well for retail costs, resale costs or dues. Ignoring the decreases directly associated with economic factors (recession, 9/11) they've been pretty steady overall. Starting back as early as 96 I've never rented for less than $10.50 pp and have been at $13 pp for quite some time even when others were taking as low as $8 for non distressed points. Certainly other factors will have an effect but timeshares are far more than math, actually the psychology is a larger factor than the math itself in many if not most situations.
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