DVC RESALES
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:13 PM   #1
brydham1
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To Buy or Not to Buy

As another year end approaches and my company begins to announce annual bonuses, I find myself wondering if this could finally be my DVC year! My love of Disney is not the question here. With at least 2 trips annually for the past 11 years, I think I'm in it for the long run. My hope with this post is for a sanity check to ensure that I am thinking through this correctly. I want to make sure that I'm asking the right questions and will not have a big unpleasant surprise at the end of this journey

SO, today, I am leaning toward multiple resale contracts to ensure that I have the benefit of home resort reservations in some key areas. This would include 40 to 60 points at a MK Resort (thinking BLT) and another 40 to 60 points at an EPCOT resort (thinking BCV). Additionally, I am looking to do another 130 to 150 points at a "lower" per point resort to fill in the gaps (OKW maybe). Ideally, I would land somewhere in the neighborhood of 230 to 270 points total.

Currently, I do one trip in early summer (June) and another one in the Fall (September or October). The travel size for these trips is usually small (2 to 4 adults maximum) and each trip is 4 to 5 days (Thurs - Mon type deals), so I would hope that my point totals (230 to 270) could set me up nicely and possibly allow for points to banked to take larger travel parties along every few years.

Questions:

- How much negotiating can be done on a resale? I see some sites offer an average per point cost. Is it socially acceptable to use that number as negotiating tool?

- I am looking to keep my upfront investment below $20,000 and my annual dues around $1,400.00. Does this sound at all doable?

- How can I get a solid estimate of closing costs? Is there a formula that can be used based on the number of points I am after?

- Instead of solo online searches does it make more sense to call an agent, tell them what I want, and then let them have at it? If so, does anyone have any suggestions on who to use?

- UY is not another area that I could use guidance. With my June and Sept/Oct targets, does Dec make sense? Anyone have any concerns with this approach?

A ton of info here, so I apologize if the wordiness! And, if anyone responds.... I say THANK YOU in advance for your time!!!

Cheers,
B.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by brydham1 View Post
Questions:

- How much negotiating can be done on a resale? I see some sites offer an average per point cost. Is it socially acceptable to use that number as negotiating tool?

- I am looking to keep my upfront investment below $20,000 and my annual dues around $1,400.00. Does this sound at all doable?

- How can I get a solid estimate of closing costs? Is there a formula that can be used based on the number of points I am after?

- Instead of solo online searches does it make more sense to call an agent, tell them what I want, and then let them have at it? If so, does anyone have any suggestions on who to use?

- UY is not another area that I could use guidance. With my June and Sept/Oct targets, does Dec make sense? Anyone have any concerns with this approach?

A ton of info here, so I apologize if the wordiness! And, if anyone responds.... I say THANK YOU in advance for your time!!!

Cheers,
B.
The prices listed on the resale sites are negotiable, some brokers are more willing than others to present lowball offers.

Of the resorts you mentioned BLT and BCV are both running around $100 per point for resale these days but you could find some better deals. OKW is around $70 per point.

Annual dues vary among resorts. BLT was $4.50 per point in 2013 but have gone up another 6% (3rd year in a row!) for 2014. BCV was $5.65 in 2013 and OKW was $5.34.

Closing costs. Not sure about a particular formula but they seem to run between $425 and $550 for a 150/160 point contract. Each. Which would raise your bottom line if you bought 3 contracts.

You could call a broker and tell them what you are looking for if you don't like looking yourself. The Timeshare Store who is a sponsor on this board at the top of the page and Fidelity are popular. There are a couple more, not sure they can be posted here.

Can't help you much on Use Year especially if you travel multiple times in the year. Banking deadline is 4 months before the beginning of your next UY. So, if you have a Feb UY your banking deadline is Sept 30 every year. If you typically travel in Oct/Nov and you have to cancel you will be past your banking date and if you can't reschedule your points will expire. UY still confuses me... .

Good luck!
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:30 PM   #3
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Your financials seem realistic as long as you are patient waiting for the "right" contracts to come along.

As to use year, the overriding concept is to travel early in your UY, since you can't bank points if a trip falls through during the last four months of your UY.

Therefore for your stated usual trip dates in June and October, your "ideal" UY would be June. With this, trips in either of your usual travel periods would have lots of time left to use or bank points, if your trip had to be rescheduled for whatever reason.

You can have more than one UY if you wish with owning multiple contracts, but having them all the same makes it easier to manage.

And don't worry TOO much about UY. If your scheduled plans don't change, UY makes no difference at all. The only real reason you need to be aware of it, is as sort of an insurance/option if your plans were to fall through.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brydham1 View Post
As another year end approaches and my company begins to announce annual bonuses, I find myself wondering if this could finally be my DVC year! My love of Disney is not the question here. With at least 2 trips annually for the past 11 years, I think I'm in it for the long run. My hope with this post is for a sanity check to ensure that I am thinking through this correctly. I want to make sure that I'm asking the right questions and will not have a big unpleasant surprise at the end of this journey

SO, today, I am leaning toward multiple resale contracts to ensure that I have the benefit of home resort reservations in some key areas. This would include 40 to 60 points at a MK Resort (thinking BLT) and another 40 to 60 points at an EPCOT resort (thinking BCV). Additionally, I am looking to do another 130 to 150 points at a "lower" per point resort to fill in the gaps (OKW maybe). Ideally, I would land somewhere in the neighborhood of 230 to 270 points total.

Currently, I do one trip in early summer (June) and another one in the Fall (September or October). The travel size for these trips is usually small (2 to 4 adults maximum) and each trip is 4 to 5 days (Thurs - Mon type deals), so I would hope that my point totals (230 to 270) could set me up nicely and possibly allow for points to banked to take larger travel parties along every few years.

Questions:

- How much negotiating can be done on a resale? I see some sites offer an average per point cost. Is it socially acceptable to use that number as negotiating tool?

- I am looking to keep my upfront investment below $20,000 and my annual dues around $1,400.00. Does this sound at all doable?

- How can I get a solid estimate of closing costs? Is there a formula that can be used based on the number of points I am after?

- Instead of solo online searches does it make more sense to call an agent, tell them what I want, and then let them have at it? If so, does anyone have any suggestions on who to use?

- UY is not another area that I could use guidance. With my June and Sept/Oct targets, does Dec make sense? Anyone have any concerns with this approach?

A ton of info here, so I apologize if the wordiness! And, if anyone responds.... I say THANK YOU in advance for your time!!!

Cheers,
B.
Assuming you don't have other consumer debt, it sounds reasonable overall. I would not go for 3 contracts though in your situation, I'd max out at 2. You do need to call because the best contracts often don't make it on the websites or are already taken by the time you call. Your best UY will be June as stated with April second and Sept third. For closing figure around $450-500 per contract, it may vary a little. Look at the ROFR thread to get an idea of what people have been paying though prices seem to be coming back down some.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:16 AM   #5
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I suggest that you buy a small SSR or OKW contract. Use it to find out what you have gotten yourself into. This will give you an opportunity to see how MS works and to stay at the other resorts to experience them before buying.

No matter what you read, personal experience is worth a thousand words.

Bill
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:03 PM   #6
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I know many disagree, but having to have home resort priority for the times you travel is much more about personality than practicality.

If you want to be completely stress free then by all means spend the extra $ (or have less points) to have the home resort priority.

If you do not mind doing a little extra work then getting rooms in the areas you describe is not a big deal at 7 months. Yes you may have to waitlist for a day or 2 hear and there, but it is extremely rare to be shut out.

Being able to plan ahead (7 or 11 months is the key element).

Beware, you will likely get addicted to a full villa very quickly, even though you have done standard hotel rooms prior to this, so plan accordingly.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #7
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I know many disagree, but having to have home resort priority for the times you travel is much more about personality than practicality.
First, I'm basically agreeing with you but discussing further. I think it's both but which is the larger factor depends on specifics. For more difficult to reserve options like AKV concierge and BWV specialty views it's about practicality. For certain resorts (VGC & VGF) and certain times of year (HH summer as example) it's also about practicality. Short of owning at all resorts one wants to stay at, there has to be some compromise and this compromise usually pits cost vs security. To me and related to the OP and info therein, I would not go with more than 2 resorts for the number of points in question. To me this is one high demand and a points cow that's cheaper or 2 high demand options. What's best truly depends on how the person will actually use the points including how well they can plan, but the emotional decision will often be the 2 high demand options.

Specific to the OP and assuming relatively even distribution for trips and cost for BLT and BCV here are some approaches that seem to make the most sense. Obviously the devil is in the details. I'm assuming SSR is usually the best value from a $$ standpoint for WDW. I'll assume 250 points for simplicity and comparison.
  1. Buy all points at BLT, more up front likely cheaper dues long term.
  2. Split between BCV & BLT maybe 40/60.
  3. Buy one of those and the rest at SSR or AKV
  4. I would not buy 3 at this point level for reasons including cost and complexity.
Unless there were a large preference for BCV, I'd suggest considering BWV instead because it will be cheaper and gives the option of the cheaper standard view units as well as the BW view. I also wouldn't target quite so small contracts due to increased costs and extra closings. I very much agree with Bill that IF I were going to buy multiple contracts, I'd buy one and give the system a try unless I found a package deal that cut closing. If one is buying resale, it's always best to buy the more difficult to find package first whenever possible, in the OP's case, the smaller or higher demand resort.

To expand on the above, here are some price comparison's. I'll use listing prices as the guide but realize once can usually get things a little less than listing for larger contracts but often not for smaller ones. Relative costs are somewhere around these for 250 total keeping in mind that smaller contracts are more and that each contract is $500 closing roughly:
  • BLT or BCV only maybe $25500
  • BLT 50 plus BCV 50 plus SSR 150 comes in at $22750
  • BLT or BCV 100 plus 150 SSR = $22250
  • Sub BWV for BCV and deduct around $20 for each point from the cost.
  • All SSR $19500
  • All BWV maybe $20500.
I personally think prices are starting to come down but it's likely that SSR will come down a little more and a little faster. One night save maybe $2000-3000 or even more by waiting a year or so but one has to weigh that against not having the points for another year, esp with likely 2 trips in the interim. Another way to save, no matter the choices, is to look for a loaded contract and maybe get a few less annual points though this is likely a better option for a larger contract than the smaller ones since they are currently in higher demand, are more likely to sell at listed price and harder to find.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:06 AM   #8
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Do you know that if you buy 50 points at BWV and 150 at OKW you can book at 11 months at BWV only using the BWV contract?
You can combine points coming from different contracts only when making a reservation at 7 months. Owning at a resort does not give you the home resort advantage with all the points you own.

That's why having multiple small contracts at different resorts can make your life harder sometimes.
Instead, if you visit for short periods, like split stays or whish to use a small contract every 2 or 3 years banking and borrowing it can work.


It looks like you did your homework, so probably my question is futile, but just in case... discovering this after purchase would hurt. A lot.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #9
brydham1
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Originally Posted by zavandor View Post
Do you know that if you buy 50 points at BWV and 150 at OKW you can book at 11 months at BWV only using the BWV contract? You can combine points coming from different contracts only when making a reservation at 7 months. Owning at a resort does not give you the home resort advantage with all the points you own. That's why having multiple small contracts at different resorts can make your life harder sometimes. Instead, if you visit for short periods, like split stays or whish to use a small contract every 2 or 3 years banking and borrowing it can work. It looks like you did your homework, so probably my question is futile, but just in case... discovering this after purchase would hurt. A lot.
Zavandor - Thank you for the response here. Unfortunately, I wasn't clear on this detail and would have probably been very disappointed at my first booking. This does take me back to the drawing board some since I thought I had finally cracked the code!!!

Thanks again,
Bryson
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:21 PM   #10
brydham1
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Originally Posted by Dean View Post
Assuming you don't have other consumer debt, it sounds reasonable overall. I would not go for 3 contracts though in your situation, I'd max out at 2. You do need to call because the best contracts often don't make it on the websites or are already taken by the time you call. Your best UY will be June as stated with April second and Sept third. For closing figure around $450-500 per contract, it may vary a little. Look at the ROFR thread to get an idea of what people have been paying though prices seem to be coming back down some.
Dean - Thank you for the response and advice, especially regarding the ROFR thread. Do you have any recommendations on a broker to use? At this point my head is spinning some, so it might be worthwhile to give one a shout! Thanks, B
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:33 PM   #11
brydham1
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Originally Posted by Dean View Post
First, I'm basically agreeing with you but discussing further. I think it's both but which is the larger factor depends on specifics. For more difficult to reserve options like AKV concierge and BWV specialty views it's about practicality. For certain resorts (VGC & VGF) and certain times of year (HH summer as example) it's also about practicality. Short of owning at all resorts one wants to stay at, there has to be some compromise and this compromise usually pits cost vs security. To me and related to the OP and info therein, I would not go with more than 2 resorts for the number of points in question. To me this is one high demand and a points cow that's cheaper or 2 high demand options. What's best truly depends on how the person will actually use the points including how well they can plan, but the emotional decision will often be the 2 high demand options. Specific to the OP and assuming relatively even distribution for trips and cost for BLT and BCV here are some approaches that seem to make the most sense. Obviously the devil is in the details. I'm assuming SSR is usually the best value from a $$ standpoint for WDW. I'll assume 250 points for simplicity and comparison.[*]Buy all points at BLT, more up front likely cheaper dues long term.[*]Split between BCV & BLT maybe 40/60.[*]Buy one of those and the rest at SSR or AKV[*]I would not buy 3 at this point level for reasons including cost and complexity. Unless there were a large preference for BCV, I'd suggest considering BWV instead because it will be cheaper and gives the option of the cheaper standard view units as well as the BW view. I also wouldn't target quite so small contracts due to increased costs and extra closings. I very much agree with Bill that IF I were going to buy multiple contracts, I'd buy one and give the system a try unless I found a package deal that cut closing. If one is buying resale, it's always best to buy the more difficult to find package first whenever possible, in the OP's case, the smaller or higher demand resort. To expand on the above, here are some price comparison's. I'll use listing prices as the guide but realize once can usually get things a little less than listing for larger contracts but often not for smaller ones. Relative costs are somewhere around these for 250 total keeping in mind that smaller contracts are more and that each contract is $500 closing roughly:[*]BLT or BCV only maybe $25500[*]BLT 50 plus BCV 50 plus SSR 150 comes in at $22750[*]BLT or BCV 100 plus 150 SSR = $22250[*]Sub BWV for BCV and deduct around $20 for each point from the cost.[*]All SSR $19500[*]All BWV maybe $20500. I personally think prices are starting to come down but it's likely that SSR will come down a little more and a little faster. One night save maybe $2000-3000 or even more by waiting a year or so but one has to weigh that against not having the points for another year, esp with likely 2 trips in the interim. Another way to save, no matter the choices, is to look for a loaded contract and maybe get a few less annual points though this is likely a better option for a larger contract than the smaller ones since they are currently in higher demand, are more likely to sell at listed price and harder to find.
Dean - This is also great advice. Given my amateur mistake of thinking that I could combine all points at any "home" resort and book 11 months out, I will need to rethink my strategy some. BLT is probably still on the list, but given your comments (plus comments from other off the boards) I probably need to research BWV a little more before committing to BCV. I feel being near MK and EPCOT will work best in the long run for me. Thanks again, B
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Msmithmd View Post
Your financials seem realistic as long as you are patient waiting for the "right" contracts to come along. As to use year, the overriding concept is to travel early in your UY, since you can't bank points if a trip falls through during the last four months of your UY. Therefore for your stated usual trip dates in June and October, your "ideal" UY would be June. With this, trips in either of your usual travel periods would have lots of time left to use or bank points, if your trip had to be rescheduled for whatever reason. You can have more than one UY if you wish with owning multiple contracts, but having them all the same makes it easier to manage. And don't worry TOO much about UY. If your scheduled plans don't change, UY makes no difference at all. The only real reason you need to be aware of it, is as sort of an insurance/option if your plans were to fall through.
Msmithmd - Thank you for the UY information. This makes sense. Still a little fuzzy, but clearer than before
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:41 PM   #13
brydham1
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Originally Posted by Msmithmd View Post
Your financials seem realistic as long as you are patient waiting for the "right" contracts to come along. As to use year, the overriding concept is to travel early in your UY, since you can't bank points if a trip falls through during the last four months of your UY. Therefore for your stated usual trip dates in June and October, your "ideal" UY would be June. With this, trips in either of your usual travel periods would have lots of time left to use or bank points, if your trip had to be rescheduled for whatever reason. You can have more than one UY if you wish with owning multiple contracts, but having them all the same makes it easier to manage. And don't worry TOO much about UY. If your scheduled plans don't change, UY makes no difference at all. The only real reason you need to be aware of it, is as sort of an insurance/option if your plans were to fall through.
Msmithmd - Thank you for the UY info. Still a little fuzzy, but a bit clearer than before
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #14
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Dean - Thank you for the response and advice, especially regarding the ROFR thread. Do you have any recommendations on a broker to use? At this point my head is spinning some, so it might be worthwhile to give one a shout! Thanks, B
I'm not comfortable recommending a broker at this point for personal reasons but it's not difficult to find those that specialize in DVC and I'm sure others can suggest the brokers they're comfortable with. It's not that I think any are bad though. I'd be happy to explain further privately to anyone that wanted me to. Realize that all we can do is offer support and suggestions based on the info provided, there are often subtle differences between similar situations. My strongest suggestions is time and active investigation, I think it takes a good 6 months of ongoing investigation to learn enough to proceed. I would strongly suggest BWV as a significantly cheaper option than BCV and I personally prefer it though obviously many have the reverse preference.

In general terms, I'd suggest patience. After that it's better to underbuy on points and resort than over buy. DVC is a great option for WDW but it is more expensive. If you'll go to WDW at least every 2 years, can plan at least 7 months out and have a history of staying on property at moderate's or above and can afford it, DVC is a great option. I think the largest mistake people have is in the area of buying with not enough info including off property options, home resorts, contract sizes and the like.
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