Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





View Poll Results: Has the recent changes and lack of info from Disney got you questioning you trip?
Yes 169 38.85%
No 266 61.15%
Voters: 435. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-31-2013, 01:33 PM   #226
mom2rtk
DIS Veteran
 
mom2rtk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30,064

Quote:
Originally Posted by daytondisney View Post
Who, and how/why?
It favors the people who like to sleep late. And it disadvantages the people who do rope drop, as a big chunk of that advantage is disappearing. It used to be that you could do a lot of rides if you arrived at RD and gathered fastpasses, even after they stopped taking late FPs. Now it appears that 3 will likely be the limit regardless, and with FP returns starting at 9 AM it's unclear if morning standby lines will stay short or start backing up much sooner.

Additionally the new system disadvantages the people who aren't tech-savvy or don't carry smart phones. And those with poor battery performance.

I don't believe there was an advantage or disadvantage with the old FP system for resort vs. non-resort guests, nor do I believe there will be once the new system gets up and running fully. Unless you count having Stacy remind you incessantly on resort TV to get your FPs. I actually will be quite interested to see if they have Stacy hyping FP+ on resort TV once this gets up and going. By the time folks arrive onsite all the headliner spots could easily be gone, and it's probably too late to get one. At least that's what I think. YMMV.
mom2rtk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 01:47 PM   #227
redsbe
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 320

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
It favors the people who like to sleep late. And it disadvantages the people who do rope drop, as a big chunk of that advantage is disappearing. It used to be that you could do a lot of rides if you arrived at RD and gathered fastpasses, even after they stopped taking late FPs. Now it appears that 3 will likely be the limit regardless, and with FP returns starting at 9 AM it's unclear if morning standby lines will stay short or start backing up much sooner.

Additionally the new system disadvantages the people who aren't tech-savvy or don't carry smart phones. And those with poor battery performance.

I don't believe there was an advantage or disadvantage with the old FP system for resort vs. non-resort guests, nor do I believe there will be once the new system gets up and running fully. Unless you count having Stacy remind you incessantly on resort TV to get your FPs. I actually will be quite interested to see if they have Stacy hyping FP+ on resort TV once this gets up and going. By the time folks arrive onsite all the headliner spots could easily be gone, and it's probably too late to get one. At least that's what I think. YMMV.
Once FP+ is fully operational the only change is compared to current FP when and how a visitor can secure their FP+, which can also be changed after booked and while in the park (and also at a kiosk not just your smartphone). And with current FP you could only hold one FP until ride window opened, making it hard to hold that many FP throughout the day, especially when WDW started to enforce the FP times, there was always a limit based on time blocks as to how many FL one could hold at a given time/day.

The advantage with RD was not to get FP early, but be able to ride most popular attractions before crowds arrived, sometimes multiple times without even using FP - a strategy that will remain even with FP+. Right now being able to use FP+, FP, KWWC is allowing some visitors to stockpile FP for the day - a loophole I believe to soon be closed by WDW when FP+ becomes the only option for FP access. Technologies like internet access, smartphones to check wait times already create usual advantages to those who use them as to taking advantage of the many pre-trip planning tools.
redsbe is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 10-31-2013, 01:56 PM   #228
mom2rtk
DIS Veteran
 
mom2rtk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30,064

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsbe View Post
Once FP+ is fully operational the only change is compared to current FP when and how a visitor can secure their FP+, which can also be changed after booked and while in the park (and also at a kiosk not just your smartphone). And with current FP you could only hold one FP until ride window opened, making it hard to hold that many FP throughout the day, especially when WDW started to enforce the FP times, there was always a limit based on time blocks as to how many FL one could hold at a given time/day.

The advantage with RD was not to get FP early, but be able to ride most popular attractions before crowds arrived, sometimes multiple times without even using FP - a strategy that will remain even with FP+. Right now being able to use FP+, FP, KWWC is allowing some visitors to stockpile FP for the day - a loophole I believe to soon be closed by WDW when FP+ becomes the only option for FP access. Technologies like internet access, smartphones to check wait times already create usual advantages to those who use them as to taking advantage of the many pre-trip planning tools.
My personal belief is that the bolded part is not true. The mere fact that you will no longer need to be in the park to get a FP, or be willing to walk across the park to pull the piece of paper, removes a couple of very big barriers to maximum usage. When you remove barriers you get more of it. So I believe most headliners will be nearly fully booked most days ahead of time in the parks. Many believe differently. To each his own. They are plowing through this though, so I guess we'll start to figure that out soon enough.

I understand the RD advantage, as it has been a staple of our touring for years. But I'm still unclear what happens when people start having return times AT park opening. And what happens to the standby wait on attractions like HM, ETTWB and Pirates, that never had FP before. I do know from very limited experience in the parks last December that the mere presence of FP+ on a ride that didn't have it before did a number on the wait times for ETWB. It slowed the standby line substantially.

I suppose my ultimate hope is that the people who log in to MDE and only find headliner FP times at 9 AM will take those, but decide later that their sleep is more important. And that the people with FPs for the second tier rides will decide to do them when they are in the area earlier in the day and just not show up for their FP+ return time. But nobody really knows yet how the crowds will really react to these things.
mom2rtk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:16 PM   #229
daytondisney
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
My personal belief is that the bolded part is not true. The mere fact that you will no longer need to be in the park to get a FP, or be willing to walk across the park to pull the piece of paper, removes a couple of very big barriers to maximum usage. When you remove barriers you get more of it. So I believe most headliners will be nearly fully booked most days ahead of time in the parks. Many believe differently. To each his own. They are plowing through this though, so I guess we'll start to figure that out soon enough.

I understand the RD advantage, as it has been a staple of our touring for years. But I'm still unclear what happens when people start having return times AT park opening. And what happens to the standby wait on attractions like HM, ETTWB and Pirates, that never had FP before. I do know from very limited experience in the parks last December that the mere presence of FP+ on a ride that didn't have it before did a number on the wait times for ETWB. It slowed the standby line substantially.

I suppose my ultimate hope is that the people who log in to MDE and only find headliner FP times at 9 AM will take those, but decide later that their sleep is more important. And that the people with FPs for the second tier rides will decide to do them when they are in the area earlier in the day and just not show up for their FP+ return time. But nobody really knows yet how the crowds will really react to these things.
You touch on a concern I raised in another thread - commitment. While some bemoan the fact that FP+ sets a maximum of 3 per day, my concern is that it sets a minimum of 3 per day. Choices made outside of the park months in advance are more easily dismissed than same-day choices made inside the park. Dead FPs may under-promise/over-deliver for stand by liners but they are the same as FPs used in terms of planning.
daytondisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:21 PM   #230
daytondisney
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
It favors the people who like to sleep late. And it disadvantages the people who do rope drop, as a big chunk of that advantage is disappearing. It used to be that you could do a lot of rides if you arrived at RD and gathered fastpasses, even after they stopped taking late FPs. Now it appears that 3 will likely be the limit regardless, and with FP returns starting at 9 AM it's unclear if morning standby lines will stay short or start backing up much sooner.

Additionally the new system disadvantages the people who aren't tech-savvy or don't carry smart phones. And those with poor battery performance.

I don't believe there was an advantage or disadvantage with the old FP system for resort vs. non-resort guests, nor do I believe there will be once the new system gets up and running fully. Unless you count having Stacy remind you incessantly on resort TV to get your FPs. I actually will be quite interested to see if they have Stacy hyping FP+ on resort TV once this gets up and going. By the time folks arrive onsite all the headliner spots could easily be gone, and it's probably too late to get one. At least that's what I think. YMMV.
Planners, tech-savvy, early risers will always have an advantage. Disney can't eliminate that. What it can do is provide greater opportunity to a greater number of guests.

Snoozers now won't choose 9am FPs and become rope droppers based on a decision made months before.

And I wouldn't call having an previously held advantage reduced to a lessor advantage "missing out."

jmo
daytondisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:22 PM   #231
Mrs. Ciz
DIS Veteran
 
Mrs. Ciz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mid-Atlantic Region
Posts: 950

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hattered View Post
Sounds like a loophole that will be closed right after they fix the double dipping thingie. But at the same time.....it could make for a cool spreadsheet that shows their hotels are booked at 80% capacity. Corporate loves positive spreadsheets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcd2745 View Post
Nothing gets corporate-types giddier than pointing to spreadsheets and charts while discussing their "metrics" (I really hate that word).


Anyway, I agree that loophole probably will not last that long.
I actually don't think it is a loophole. FP- was always tied to your park ticket not your resort stay. Disney has said FP+ will be available to everyone - both on site and off site. As FP+ is currently working, it is linked to the park ticket, not the resort stay. During the brief testing period a resort stay only triggers your invitation to make the FP+ reservations. During testing every on site visitor gets a 14 day FP+ reservation window no matter how short/long their trip is. The number of days they can book FP+ is tied to their ticket length, not how many nights they are staying on property. Say a person books one night in a Value hotel but has a 10 day park ticket. They can book 10 days of FP+ during the 14 day window, no matter where they stay the next 9 nights.

It makes sense that IT linked FP+ to the ticket and not the resort stay. They need it to work for offsite guest in a couple of months too.
__________________
Grew up a Disneyland Girl!
DL: Too many times to count growing up, DL: Jr. High Grad Trip 1980, WDW: Summer 1983, DL: New Year's Eve 1989, WDW: August 1995, DLR: Christmas 2001, DLR: June 2003, WDW: July 2010, WDW: Dec 2011, WDW: June 2013, DLR: July 2013

Wyndham Timeshare Owner & RCI Member since 1985

Last edited by Mrs. Ciz; 10-31-2013 at 02:44 PM.
Mrs. Ciz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:27 PM   #232
mom2rtk
DIS Veteran
 
mom2rtk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30,064

Quote:
Originally Posted by daytondisney View Post
You touch on a concern I raised in another thread - commitment. While some bemoan the fact that FP+ sets a maximum of 3 per day, my concern is that it sets a minimum of 3 per day. Choices made outside of the park months in advance are more easily dismissed than same-day choices made inside the park. Dead FPs may under-promise/over-deliver for stand by liners but they are the same as FPs used in terms of planning.
I'd like to think that after the full system is rolled out for a while, Disney will have reliable enough data on no-shows to overbook to the right level. But then one would have thought they had enough history of ADR no-shows to overbook those to the right level. Yet I saw post after post about empty tables in the restaurants when there were no ADRs available and walk-ups were being turned away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daytondisney View Post
Planners, tech-savvy, early risers will always have an advantage. Disney can't eliminate that. What it can do is provide greater opportunity to a greater number of guests.

Snoozers now won't choose 9am FPs and become rope droppers based on a decision made months before.

And I wouldn't call having an previously held advantage reduced to a lessor advantage "missing out."

jmo
I'd like to think snoozers won't book a 9 AM fastpass, but when you log on and that's all there is, what else do you do?

Call it all whatever you like, but I call it a huge takeaway if I go from getting an average of 6 FPs a day (MK and DHS) down to 3, with no duplications.
mom2rtk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:50 PM   #233
Mrs. Ciz
DIS Veteran
 
Mrs. Ciz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mid-Atlantic Region
Posts: 950

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
I'd like to think that after the full system is rolled out for a while, Disney will have reliable enough data on no-shows to overbook to the right level. But then one would have thought they had enough history of ADR no-shows to overbook those to the right level. Yet I saw post after post about empty tables in the restaurants when there were no ADRs available and walk-ups were being turned away.



I'd like to think snoozers won't book a 9 AM fastpass, but when you log on and that's all there is, what else do you do?

Call it all whatever you like, but I call it a huge takeaway if I go from getting an average of 6 FPs a day (MK and DHS) down to 3, with no duplications.
And I think that is why so many people are not happy about the FP+ system. It is being sold as a big improvement - the newest, latest, greatest. But folks feel like it's a "bait and switch" ploy, because when they actually look at the new program, they are losing something rather than gaining something.

I guess we all just have to wait and see.
__________________
Grew up a Disneyland Girl!
DL: Too many times to count growing up, DL: Jr. High Grad Trip 1980, WDW: Summer 1983, DL: New Year's Eve 1989, WDW: August 1995, DLR: Christmas 2001, DLR: June 2003, WDW: July 2010, WDW: Dec 2011, WDW: June 2013, DLR: July 2013

Wyndham Timeshare Owner & RCI Member since 1985
Mrs. Ciz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:05 PM   #234
jensen
DIS Veteran
 
jensen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 1,297

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
It used to be that you could do a lot of rides if you arrived at RD and gathered fastpasses, even after they stopped taking late FPs.
How did one "gather" fastpasses? I recall that there was a block so that you could really only have one or maybe two fastpasses at a time.
__________________
Me (41) DH (41) DS (14) DD(11)
Disneyland: March 1985 l June 1990 l January 2010
Walt Disney World: March 1998 CSR l Jan 2005 Pop Century 80's l Jan 2006 Pop Century 90's l Jan 2007 Pop Century 50's
Jan 2009 All Star Music Jazz Family Suite l Jan 2012 All Star Music Country Fair l Jan 2014 All Star Movies Mighty Ducks
jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:06 PM   #235
daytondisney
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
Call it all whatever you like, but I call it a huge takeaway if I go from getting an average of 6 FPs a day (MK and DHS) down to 3, with no duplications.
I didnt call it anything. I asked which group would be missing out under the new system and how. Looks like current rope-drop-loving, touring-plan advocates obtaining a lessor number of FPs.
daytondisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:09 PM   #236
mom2rtk
DIS Veteran
 
mom2rtk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30,064

Quote:
Originally Posted by jensen View Post
How did one "gather" fastpasses? I recall that there was a block so that you could really only have one or maybe two fastpasses at a time.
I didn't say they gathered them all at once. It was more a case of watching and being aware of the first opportunity you had to get another, then pulling that next one right when the window opened, then going to the prior one. And knowing which FPs were disconnected and getting those at the same time. I was always aware of when I would be FP eligible again, and seldom let those opportunities pass.
mom2rtk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:09 PM   #237
jensen
DIS Veteran
 
jensen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 1,297

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
So I believe most headliners will be nearly fully booked most days ahead of time in the parks.

And what happens to the standby wait on attractions like HM, ETTWB and Pirates, that never had FP before.
These are EXACTLY my concerns.
__________________
Me (41) DH (41) DS (14) DD(11)
Disneyland: March 1985 l June 1990 l January 2010
Walt Disney World: March 1998 CSR l Jan 2005 Pop Century 80's l Jan 2006 Pop Century 90's l Jan 2007 Pop Century 50's
Jan 2009 All Star Music Jazz Family Suite l Jan 2012 All Star Music Country Fair l Jan 2014 All Star Movies Mighty Ducks
jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:09 PM   #238
daytondisney
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Ciz View Post
And I think that is why so many people are not happy about the FP+ system. It is being sold as a big improvement - the newest, latest, greatest. But folks feel like it's a "bait and switch" ploy, because when they actually look at the new program, they are losing something rather than gaining something.

I guess we all just have to wait and see.
It's Disney's best educated guess at what will appeal to the most guests. I like not worrying the night before whether or not we'll get on headliners the next day, even though I know we'll be there near rope drop time. Guess a lot of others do, too. Hello FP+
daytondisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:11 PM   #239
redsbe
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 320

"How did one "gather" fastpasses? I recall that there was a block so that you could really only have one or maybe two fastpasses at a time. "

I had the same question, once WDW started enforcing the FP ride times how could anyone stockpile more than 3 or 4 fastpasses in one day, collected all early to use later?
redsbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 03:16 PM   #240
Mad Hattered
I had a stick of CareFree gum, but it didn't work. I felt pretty good while I was blowing that bubble, but as soon as the gum lost its flavor, I was back to pondering my mortality.
 
Mad Hattered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Down in a Hole
Posts: 4,156

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsbe View Post
"How did one "gather" fastpasses? I recall that there was a block so that you could really only have one or maybe two fastpasses at a time. "

I had the same question, once WDW started enforcing the FP ride times how could anyone stockpile more than 3 or 4 fastpasses in one day, collected all early to use later?
If you pulled one at rope drop you could get another one typically 30 minutes later. So there is two in the first half hour of the park opening. Then you can pull one every 2 hours afterwards. We easily used 6 or 7 or 8 in a day when park hopping.
__________________
I like escalators, because an escalator can never break; it can only become stairs. There would never be an “Escalator Temporarily Out of Order” sign. Only an “Escalator Temporarily Stairs… Sorry for the Convenience.”
Mad Hattered is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: