DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 06-25-2013, 09:10 PM   #31
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So after a period of time will this give insight into the size of the resale market for the WDW DVC properties?

Are there any sales not included?

Not a single SSR got ROFR'd. Not a surprise considering the volume of points at SSR.
I'm including everything that I can find listed on the OC website. I'm probably missing a few as I just search notices and deeds. I also don't go into detail on each deed, just look for what I know. It should give a basic representation on size and date.

SSR and AKV usually don't get ROFR'd since I've started checking.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:15 PM   #32
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Do you include Affidavits in your search criteria? Sometimes, DVD's Notices of Waiver are filed on the OCC website as Affidavits instead of Notices. Don't ask me why its done that way.
Yes, and I've seen at least one instance (from my massive 500-deed troll through BWV this weekend) where the notice was filed as a Deed! Apparently the amount of vetting being done by the OC recorder is... not a lot.

I also saw deeds filed with misspellings like BORADWALK, BOARDWLK, etc. in the "legal notes" field. Usually either the notice or the deed had the correct name in the field, so once I had one I could find the other. But if both were misspelled, I wouldn't know.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:15 PM   #33
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Do you include Affidavits in your search criteria? Sometimes, DVD's Notices of Waiver are filed on the OCC website as Affidavits instead of Notices. Don't ask me why its done that way.

Also, did you skip 6/20 when compiling your stats? There was an interesting bankruptcy-related filing that should skew your numbers for BCV.
I don't look for affidavits at all. I filter my search by notice when looking for waivers. I will look into that though...didn't know some waivers are posted as affidavits.

I don't run the numbers everyday. If I can get 15-20 min at work I usually do a quick check and transfer the numbers into an Excel file and post them. Probably will miss some stretches of time....but others are free to post if they are following the same trends.

I'm interested in the BCV bankruptcy filing...what was the outcome?
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:22 PM   #34
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So after a period of time will this give insight into the size of the resale market for the WDW DVC properties?
The most complete look at the last six months as far as number of contracts that changed hands is the numbers I put together a while back. ImagineerTHAT is using a slightly different approach than I did, because he's starting from the Notice of Waiver and using that info to track down the deeds. That gives him the Waiver date, which is more accurate than the date on the deed. Still, it gives you rough ratios of sales to ROFR exercises and third-party sales to direct sales:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3120984

I plan to update the chart with June data once all the deeds are filed and proofed, so maybe a week or so into July.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ImagineerTHAT View Post
I don't look for affidavits at all. I filter my search by notice when looking for waivers. I will look into that though...didn't know some waivers are posted as affidavits.

[snip]

I'm interested in the BCV bankruptcy filing...what was the outcome?
There are a few oddities with the filings on OCC, as well as mislabeled items. I've seen enough Marriott and Wyndham deeds mislabeled as DVC deeds to know there are probably some DVC deeds mislabeled as Marriott and Wyndham. OCC is having a bit of difficulty with Villas at Grand Floridian Unit 01I -- it sometimes labels it as Unit 01L, which does not exist. All of this just makes it more fun when playing around with the records.

Although the BCV record was not titled as a warranty deed, it appears to be one. It transfers ownership of 750 BCV points to DVD and there is no mention of foreclosure.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #36
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Potential dumb question, but why are there decimal points? Do people really negotiate down to the cents? Or is the price a combination of price per point plus closing fee plus MF?
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #37
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Although the BCV record was not titled as a warranty deed, it appears to be one. It transfers ownership of 750 BCV points to DVD and there is no mention of foreclosure.
Could it be this contract?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timeshare-75...-/160998369287
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:31 PM   #38
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Probably so. It fits the description.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #39
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Potential dumb question, but why are there decimal points? Do people really negotiate down to the cents? Or is the price a combination of price per point plus closing fee plus MF?
Certain title companies post the sale price, so you can just do a Cost/Pts to get price per point...and it always works out to exact dollar amounts.

Others don't include the cost, so you have to get it from the deed tax, which is 0.70 per $100. When doing that, there are usually cents left over.

Last edited by ImagineerTHAT; 06-29-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:52 PM   #40
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This is the most interesting and valuable part for me. Thanks for taking your time to do it.

Unfortunately, I think people are more likely to post in the ROFR thread if they think they got a bargain than if they think they may have paid more than others for the same thing.

Thus, I think people are getting a skewed view of what the market really is - i.e., the ROFR threads tends to make people think the going prices are lower than they actually are. Then those folks get frustrated when their "fair" offers are rejected or if they see others making full price offers.
This is a really good point. And these numbers actually make me feel better about my offer. We aren't closing on VWL contract until August - but it passed for $79pp (2 seperate contracts, 1 for 25 and 1 for 100)

After reviewing the ROFR thread, I noticed that I paid higher than any other contract in my point range which made me second guess myself - even though I was originally content with the price. Now, seeing these numbers and seeing that there actually was a VWL ROFR'd for $73 pp and I am totally willing to pay the extra $750 in order to pass.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:39 AM   #41
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This is a really good point. And these numbers actually make me feel better about my offer. We aren't closing on VWL contract until August - but it passed for $79pp (2 seperate contracts, 1 for 25 and 1 for 100)

After reviewing the ROFR thread, I noticed that I paid higher than any other contract in my point range which made me second guess myself - even though I was originally content with the price. Now, seeing these numbers and seeing that there actually was a VWL ROFR'd for $73 pp and I am totally willing to pay the extra $750 in order to pass.
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I wouldnt feel bad about paying 79 per pt for VWL. Resales for VWL are scarce, seem to get snatched up quick. Our 4th VWL, contract direct we paid 83 per pt(this was an increase of $11 from our 1st contract at $72 per pt for VWL). I thought it was steep in those days, but now, it seems reasonable.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #42
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Potential dumb question, but why are there decimal points? Do people really negotiate down to the cents? Or is the price a combination of price per point plus closing fee plus MF?
Usually it's just because when you calculate the price from the Deed Doc Tax, you're getting not the actual price, but the price rounded up to the nearest $100.

For example, if someone sold 160 points at $72, the sale price would be $11,520. The Deed Doc Tax is on each $100 or remaining fraction, so you effectively pay tax on $11,600. The tax would be $81.20 ($0.70 for each $100). When reading the deeds, we see $81.20 and 160 points, calculate a total sale price of $11,600, divide by 160 and get $72.50.

When I post sale prices figured from the Deed Doc Tax, I generally just round them down to the nearest dollar as a rough-and-ready way of correcting for this factor, since most of the time the price is negotiated in whole dollars per point. ImagineerTHAT prefers to just report the calculated price, which is a perfectly good way to go and in some ways more transparent. The prices are generally slightly high because of the round up built into the tax, so you just have to know that actual sale prices are slightly lower.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #43
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Potential dumb question, but why are there decimal points? Do people really negotiate down to the cents? Or is the price a combination of price per point plus closing fee plus MF?
Buyers and sellers can negotiate any price they want for a DVC deed. Although prices are normally determined at a price per point, such as $70 a point, a buyer and sell can agree on a set price for the deed.

For example, a seller may offer a 220-point deed at $70 a point, or $15,400. A buyer may counter and offer $15,000 for the deed, which comes out to $68.18 a point.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #44
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Buyers and sellers can negotiate any price they want for a DVC deed. Although prices are normally determined at a price per point, such as $70 a point, a buyer and sell can agree on a set price for the deed.

For example, a seller may offer a 220-point deed at $70 a point, or $15,400. A buyer may counter and offer $15,000 for the deed, which comes out to $68.18 a point.
I do find it strange that most of the title companies that list the price come out to whole numbers, whereas most of the doc deed tax calculations have extra cents on them. The deed tax calculation usually works out to a normal total amount, but the price per point isn't a round number. It could just be that they calculate the tax based on a certain rate.

Either way, I think dmunsil is correct in rounding down. I've started to do that in my spreadsheets. I'm not too concerned with a $1 difference in what I'm looking for.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:25 PM   #45
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I do find it strange that most of the title companies that list the price come out to whole numbers, whereas most of the doc deed tax calculations have extra cents on them.
It's just the way the tax is calculated. The tax is 70 cents for each hundred dollars. It's always a whole multiple of 70 cents. So the calculated price is always going to be a multiple of $100, but it will often be too high by somewhere between $1 and $99. Check out my example. When you then divide that too-high price by the number of points, you get a small number of cents per point, which is usually (but not always) just an artifact of the inaccuracy of calculating the sale price from the Deed Doc Tax.

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