DVC RESALES
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #31
iluvthsgam
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Originally Posted by BestDadEver View Post
This is what I was referring to . They were his numbers I didn't calculate them . I have no interest in calculating his numbers but he said this would be the difference in price due to his calculations . That's what I responded to and my numbers were correct for the situation. So thanks for correcting me with wrong information . Dmunsil you have been a member for 5 days .
Don't think you need to be a jerk about it.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Woody and Buzz View Post
I would like to buy 200 points either used or direct. I am looking to go to DL every other year. Also when we want to go to WDW I could bank points and barrow points. For that trip I would plan on 600 points for the trip.

So buying direct would give me the option in using all other Disney resorts and hotels. Has anyone used there points to go to other hotels in other places? I don't know if buying direct and using points that is a good way too.

If I buy used for the GC that would limit me too just the 11 resorts. I would save around $4000-$6000 dollars but I would put myself in a corner.

In the end ultimately want to buy a DVC because I think I pay the same amount of $$ every trip to DL. I would like to save $15-20,000 to put down for a DVC. Also I could give the DVC to my 2 kids down the road.
With all due respect, I think you need to either change your thinking about DVC or consider not purchasing DVC. The value of any timeshare system is the ability to use one's ownership within the system. In the case of DVC that means 7 WDW resorts, 1 DL resort and 3 beach properties. If these options do not appeal to you, then you probably should not be buying DVC.

A few other quick points:
  • The distinction is resale and direct, not "used" and direct. I know it's a subtle difference, but it is a difference.
  • You already do have the option to stay at any WDW or DL resort. All you need to do is call CRO and make a reservation. The thought that you need to buy a timeshare to have these options is a bit misguided. By using DVC direct for these options you are not saving any money, you are just paying differently and at different times, and probably more than you would by booking direct and paying cash.
  • While a noble thought, I do not think that people should buy a timeshare with the idea of giving it to their children. I thought this way when I bought my Marriott timeshare 10 years ago. Seeing how the maintenance fees have increased, I would not want to burden my children with this expense when I eventually die. I am glad my DVC contracts have an expiration date.

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Originally Posted by BestDadEver View Post
I guess the question is , is that a lot of money to you .

To me $4-6k in comparison to the purchase price is not enough to take the risk on what restrictions may or may not take place down the road to resale buyers . If your were looking at others resorts the numbers saved would be much higher and IMO worth the risk if you find no value in the options you won't have .

I jus gloom at it this way if Disney decides to restrict anyone's perks ect . It will most likely be resale buyers . At least till they stop selling new resorts . I doubt they can demand such high prices for new resorts without having separate extra perks that make it worthwhile .
While I respect that this is the way you feel, I really think you should investigate the legalities of restrictions a little more. Many of the possible changes you suggest are at best incredibly difficult to implement and at worst a violation of the contract. I'm not going to suggest that you should feel differently, but you should know that what you are saying is sheer speculation and in some ways is in conflict with the rights that DVD has regarding the ability to implement restrictions. Take a moment to read Dean's analysis of potential restrictions for a more likely scenario.

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Originally Posted by BestDadEver View Post
If they do restrict resale down the line I'd be kicking myself for not bucking up the IMO few extra bucks to have full benefits . What if they decide to make it that you can only stay at your home resort if you bought resale .

I understand its a lot of money but not when your spending $20k
Just so I'm understanding you, saving $4,000-$6,000 is not a substantial savings on a $20,000 purchase? I think we'll have to disagree on that one. Also, for the benefit of the readers, I think it is important that you disclose that you chose to finance your purchase. I'm not making any judgments or speaking negatively about those who choose to finance a DVC purchase. But I do think it adds perspective to the conversation. I suspect that you would change your tune about saving $4,000 not being a big deal if you had to write the check up front.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dmunsil View Post
They can't do that. It's in the declaration of condominium for all the resorts that every member participates in the DVC system, and every owner of a portion of the condominium is a member of the DVC system. Moreover if they did do that, it would just make life worse for the other DVC members who bought direct, because they'd have a harder time staying in other resorts.

The things they can remove, either for everyone or just some people, include:

- Shopping & dining discounts.
- Annual pass discounts.
- Tables in Wonderland discount.
- RCI exchanges

And I'm not actually sure they'd want to restrict RCI exchanges; I think they make money on them.

Basically they can't take away your ability to book DVC resorts. That's what you're paying for, that's where the value is. The other stuff is miscellaneous conveniences and minor discounts. The exchanges for cruises and so forth are actually financially a loss over just paying cash.

Also, keep in mind that any time DVC reduces the benefits for resale customers, they reduce the resale value of everyone's memberships. If you ever think you might want to sell your membership, you should be upset that Disney has this two-tier thing going on. It could cost you money down the road. If they add more restrictions, that's dollars Disney is taking out of your pocket if you ever need or want to sell.
This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .You don't know what they are going to do .

I really don't care cause because I don't intend to sell till after my break even point so at that point anything is good to me . If I even sell it . I know where this is going , I don't really want to hear about how if I loose my job ect . That i will be in over my head . The stupid DVC contract would be the last of my worries if I lost my job . I wouldn't buy anything if I was worried about loosing my job .
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
With all due respect, I think you need to either change your thinking about DVC or consider not purchasing DVC. The value of any timeshare system is the ability to use one's ownership within the system. In the case of DVC that means 7 WDW resorts, 1 DL resort and 3 beach properties. If these options do not appeal to you, then you probably should not be buying DVC.

A few other quick points:
  • The distinction is resale and direct, not "used" and direct. I know it's a subtle difference, but it is a difference.
  • You already do have the option to stay at any WDW or DL resort. All you need to do is call CRO and make a reservation. The thought that you need to buy a timeshare to have these options is a bit misguided. By using DVC direct for these options you are not saving any money, you are just paying differently and at different times, and probably more than you would by booking direct and paying cash.
  • While a noble thought, I do not think that people should buy a timeshare with the idea of giving it to their children. I thought this way when I bought my Marriott timeshare 10 years ago. Seeing how the maintenance fees have increased, I would not want to burden my children with this expense when I eventually die. I am glad my DVC contracts have an expiration date.



While I respect that this is the way you feel, I really think you should investigate the legalities of restrictions a little more. Many of the possible changes you suggest are at best incredibly difficult to implement and at worst a violation of the contract. I'm not going to suggest that you should feel differently, but you should know that what you are saying is sheer speculation and in some ways is in conflict with the rights that DVD has regarding the ability to implement restrictions. Take a moment to read Dean's analysis of potential restrictions for a more likely scenario.



Just so I'm understanding you, saving $4,000-$6,000 is not a substantial savings on a $20,000 purchase? I think we'll have to disagree on that one. Also, for the benefit of the readers, I think it is important that you disclose that you chose to finance your purchase. I'm not making any judgments or speaking negatively about those who choose to finance a DVC purchase. But I do think it adds perspective to the conversation. I suspect that you would change your tune about saving $4,000 not being a big deal if you had to write the check up front.
I specifically stated it was my opinion it wasn't a lot of money . And specifically asked the OP to ask himself that question . If he think is its a lot then thats his decision .
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:42 PM   #35
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This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .You don't know what they are going to do .
To be fair, that's not what you said. You said that they could make you stay at only your home resort. They are two different things. You are correct in saying that contractually they can alter the booking windows for resale owners. But as it stands now, the best interpretations of the contract I have read infer that they cannot remove access to the other resorts in the system for one group of owners and not another.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:46 PM   #36
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To be fair, that's not what you said. You said that they could make you stay at only your home resort. They are two different things. You are correct in saying that contractually they can alter the booking windows for resale owners. But as it stands now, the best interpretations of the contract I have read infer that they cannot remove access to the other resorts in the system for one group of owners and not another.
Its all what if's . I didn't say they were going to do anything . What if they say all resale purchases will not be able to access new resorts in the DVC system .
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:57 PM   #37
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What happens when down the road disney decides to restrict resale buyer again . Things I think could happen , maybe they will lower the 11/7 book window for resales , maybe they will only allow you to to stay at your home resort .
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Its all what if's . I didn't say they were going to do anything . What if they say all resale purchases will not be able to access new resorts in the DVC system .
Your argument would hold water if your "what ifs" were possible. But it has been opined on here many times that the restrictions you are suggesting are in violation of the POS and are near impossible for DVD to implement. Posing it as a question rather than a statement doesn't make it any less incorrect. Your fears about restrictions are in line with "what if aliens come down from outer space and blow up Disney World?" I guess it would ruin the value of my resale contract, but the chances of it happening are so infinitesimally small that it's not a valid argument.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:58 PM   #38
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This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .
People say that, and my opinion is that they are wrong. You are not just guaranteed your home resort, you are guaranteed to participate in the entire DVC system. And I don't actually think they could make the booking window smaller for resale owners.

Disney has great lawyers, though; possibly they could find a way. But do I think they will? No. And if they did, it would be a public relations disaster. There would be lawsuits. It would be epic. ROFR would not be enough to stem the tide of resales being offered at bargain-basement prices.

I actually do think Disney has some limitations on what they can do, not just legally, but because they actually have a brand to protect. They have to carefully calibrate the restrictions so they don't anger a large chunk of their customers. That's why the restrictions so far have been options that aren't really a good deal. They're pure convenience, but they help the sales staff offer a reason to buy direct. That's perfect from Disney's POV. Enough difference to keep sales up, but not enough difference to anger the customers.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #39
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I was looking the other day but could not find, are all the agreements online somewhere? Membership Agreement? I would assume some like the ground lease and/or operating agreement and/or others would be on the OCC website. Does anyone know? Maybe i'll have a lawyer take a look at it (me)
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:23 PM   #40
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I was looking the other day but could not find, are all the agreements online somewhere? Membership Agreement? I would assume some like the ground lease and/or operating agreement and/or others would be on the OCC website. Does anyone know? Maybe i'll have a lawyer take a look at it (me)
Yes, they're all on the OCC website, or PM or email and I can send over most of them.

Search on "Condo Related" and DISNEY as the grantor, and I think you'll get them. The first filing for each resort is usually the main Declaration of Condominium and the rest of the DVC membership stuff. If you put one of the following in the Legal Description field you can usually narrow it down to one resort:

"CLUB AT WALT" (for OKW)
BOARDWALK
"BEACH CLUB"
WILDERNESS
ANIMAL
SARATOGA
"BAY LAKE TOWER"
"GRAND FLORIDIAN"

Sometimes Beach club comes up as "BCH CLUB" in the older documents. Anyway, it's not super hard.

Also, a lot of the Disney deeds reference the book and page numbers of the key documents in their legal description. So just look up a Beach Club deed from Disney, read the legal description, and search for the book and page numbers they cite.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #41
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Yes, they're all on the OCC website, or PM or email and I can send over most of them.
Thanks, I will take a look.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:45 PM   #42
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Your argument would hold water if your "what ifs" were possible. But it has been opined on here many times that the restrictions you are suggesting are in violation of the POS and are near impossible for DVD to implement. Posing it as a question rather than a statement doesn't make it any less incorrect. Your fears about restrictions are in line with "what if aliens come down from outer space and blow up Disney World?" I guess it would ruin the value of my resale contract, but the chances of it happening are so infinitesimally small that it's not a valid argument.
This is too funny.

Some people will always look at the worst case, no matter how unlikely or ridiculous, and try to justify an absurd premise with a completely specious argument.

A more plausible scenario w/b for DVC to create another entire level of club membership as was discussed here quite a bit when VGF was first announced.

But since that didn't happen then it probably won't based on a resort by resort basis.

What I could see at some point, since it could be another cash cow for DVC w/o really having to do anything, is to offer and upgrade to restricted resale buyers for a fee to make the points unrestricted. That w/b interesting.
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