RFID Possible Major Issue

[TheRustyScupper]

Originally Posted by doconeill

. . . But you aren't going to get away from RFID entirely . . .

. . . correct
. . . this isn't Burger King
. . . you can't have it your way *
. . . you have to have it Disney's way *

I thought they decided to go with PIN for everything? Are they changing it again?!?

. . . yes
. . . they are pitching the "tap and go" for purchases as a guest benefit *
. . . of course, it takes a lot less manpower for Disney *
. . . and, makes transactions quicker, so they can get more sales *

* This comes from our mandatory Group Meeting.

[doconeill]

Originally Posted by TheRustyScupper

. . . they are pitching the "tap and go" for purchases as a guest benefit *
. . . of course, it takes a lot less manpower for Disney *
. . . and, makes transactions quicker, so they can get more sales *

* This comes from our mandatory Group Meeting.

They pitched it before they changed it too

At the very least, they could at least make it guest-selectable on how much to require the PIN. But they don't want that, because they want it as easy as possible for guests to spend without thinking.

[raidermatt]

With regard to "tap n go", Disney is trying the same tactic the credit card companies tried when they introduced RFID many years ago. It didn't work for the cc companies and it won't work for Disney.

The reality is that "tap n go" is of no more practical benefit to the customer than "swipe n go", which has been around for a long time. CC companies thought they could get customers to beg for RFID but it didn't happen. Yes, cc companies are using it more and more, but not because of customer demand, it's because it benefits them.

Allowing $50 and under without a pin is the same as allowing it with a swipe and no ID or signature in the old environment. All a guest has to do is buy something for $49 and then claim they lost their card and Disney will be on the hook. Not to mention all of the legit lost cards that are used by the less than honest. I'd be surprised if Disney stuck with the no pin policy, at least with charges that large.

[TheRustyScupper]

Originally Posted by doconeill

. . . At the very least, they could at least make it guest-selectable on how much to require the PIN . . .

1) Great idea, but watch out.
2) You are now thinking logically.
3) If it makes sense, Disney IT-Dept would probably ignore it.

[doconeill]

Originally Posted by raidermatt

With regard to "tap n go", Disney is trying the same tactic the credit card companies tried when they introduced RFID many years ago. It didn't work for the cc companies and it won't work for Disney.

The reality is that "tap n go" is of no more practical benefit to the customer than "swipe n go", which has been around for a long time. CC companies thought they could get customers to beg for RFID but it didn't happen. Yes, cc companies are using it more and more, but not because of customer demand, it's because it benefits them.

Allowing $50 and under without a pin is the same as allowing it with a swipe and no ID or signature in the old environment. All a guest has to do is buy something for $49 and then claim they lost their card and Disney will be on the hook. Not to mention all of the legit lost cards that are used by the less than honest. I'd be surprised if Disney stuck with the no pin policy, at least with charges that large.

It may have been American Express that led the charge, although their first pass was actually not with RFID but a contact chip. I think they were planning to instill a demand in their users for cheap chip-readers at home for use with online purchases. When that went nowhere, the next version of the card had an RFID chip and they touted tap-and-go instead.

The swipe-and-no-signature isn't actually the old environment - it's the current environment. But each vendor is different and can place different limits (up to whatever the CC processors require - $50 I think is the max but $20 is common), or require it every time. Depends on how much loss they might want to absorb. Disney may be willing to accept greater losses - but again, its on the guest to look for those charges they didn't make and dispute them.

As for guests purchasing and then claiming they didn't make it...I'm sure Disney can check out the video recordings and place you at the POS at the time of purchase if they needed to...and I bet if it comes up a lot on a particular profile they will...

And I've heard some anecdotes from some security experts that those special pouches, foil, etc. are of limited protection. It will probably stop some of the more "casual" issues, but a determined skimmer with a powerful reader can probably still get it. I haven't seen proof of it myself.

[lockedoutlogic]

I think its a different scenario to a certain extent...

The smart chips that Amex and Mastercard, for the most part, starting pushing back into the 90's made one critical error - the majority of credit card users aren't in huge lines and aren't in that much of a hurry (I know...nobody within 100 miles of new york city can believe me...but it is the case)...

So it played like an "unecessary convenience" on most days.

Disney thinks they have the market for it...and i think they might be right.

There are always lines at food and retail in WDW...or at least enough of the time where the "tap" would be more advantageous.

But as the Scup pointed out...and it was the whole point of this system that any of us who watch them closely already assumed the minute we saw the happy mickey orbs...

this is about fast, rapid fire, convenient retail checkouts. Swipes, security, pins, procedures...they get in the way.

That's why i think this is gonna work for them...because their spin machine is laying the footings to make this such a "relaxing, convenient system"...and if people are basically walking up to the checkout at World of Disney and reducing their transaction times by 50% or more (due to a variety of reasons)...then it might work.

But its all about merch....it has nothing to do with tickets or room keys or having goofy blurt out your kid's name at the gate of Studios...
Those things will have the same problems they always did: the batteries on the room touchpads will die...tickets will be lost...the hardware will fail, the wristbands will fail.

But a one second checkout transaction was worth it to them...
reportedly one billion up front to them

"merchandising....where the real money is made!"

[TheRustyScupper]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

. . . this is about fast, rapid fire, convenient retail checkouts. Swipes, security, pins, procedures...they get in the way . . . But its all about merch . . .

1) Youbetcha !
2) The easier to charge the more you buy.
3) Why do people think
. . . cruise ships only allow you to charge to the room? *
. . . casinos use chips instead of real money?
. . . stores and banks push the use off debit cards?
. . . the TV ads for credit cards are plentiful?
4) If you don't see the cash, you are likely to spend more.
5) And, it works !
6) The old "out of sight, out of mind".
7) At least until you see the credit card bill.

* And, now, even timeshare resorts are starting the "room key"
only for purchases? People watch their cash. They care little
when they can just charge-it.

[mcd2745]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

I think its a different scenario to a certain extent...

The smart chips that Amex and Mastercard, for the most part, starting pushing back into the 90's made one critical error - the majority of credit card users aren't in huge lines and aren't in that much of a hurry (I know...nobody within 100 miles of new york city can believe me...but it is the case)...

So it played like an "unecessary convenience" on most days.

Disney thinks they have the market for it...and i think they might be right.

There are always lines at food and retail in WDW...or at least enough of the time where the "tap" would be more advantageous.

But as the Scup pointed out...and it was the whole point of this system that any of us who watch them closely already assumed the minute we saw the happy mickey orbs...

this is about fast, rapid fire, convenient retail checkouts. Swipes, security, pins, procedures...they get in the way.

That's why i think this is gonna work for them...because their spin machine is laying the footings to make this such a "relaxing, convenient system"...and if people are basically walking up to the checkout at World of Disney and reducing their transaction times by 50% or more (due to a variety of reasons)...then it might work.

But its all about merch....it has nothing to do with tickets or room keys or having goofy blurt out your kid's name at the gate of Studios...
Those things will have the same problems they always did: the batteries on the room touchpads will die...tickets will be lost...the hardware will fail, the wristbands will fail.

But a one second checkout transaction was worth it to them...
reportedly one billion up front to them

"merchandising....where the real money is made!"