Making sense out of insanity (DVC purchase)

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

We bought though Disney and we borrowed the Money to do it. We are very happy with our purchase. Its some of the best money we ever spent but we could affort the monthly payment. If you want DVC and can afford it go for it. Some people are into crunching the numbers and big saving I'm not its about vacation and spending time with my family to me.

I'm curious, when did you make your purchase?

I will say that buying direct and financing, while not the best move from a strictly financial standpoint, has only become that much poorer of an option in the past few years as the gap between direct and resale has continued to widen. Unfortunately, depending on the starting price for VGF, I don't think that gap is going to narrow anytime soon.

[wulfekamp]

I'm not saying buying resale is bad. DVC is not walmart. Your not going to save big money. There is more than saving money when it comes to DVC. I'm not going to stress myself out with all the number crunching over vacation. Vacation for me is about relaxing and enjoying my family.

[crisi]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

I'm not saying buying resale is bad. DVC is not walmart. Your not going to save big money. There is more than saving money when it comes to DVC. I'm not going to stress myself out with all the number crunching over vacation. Vacation for me is about relaxing and enjoying my family.

And if you don't enjoy number crunching and can afford to ignore it, why should you?

Two types of people number crunch...those of us who love it, and those who need to make DVC work financially. I'm always a little frightened number crunching for the second, since ROI type accounting always assumes a lot of assumptions, and if spending thousands more than you would over the course of your ownership is a big deal, assumptions gone bad can make that a reality.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

I'm not saying buying resale is bad. DVC is not walmart. Your not going to save big money. There is more than saving money when it comes to DVC. I'm not going to stress myself out with all the number crunching over vacation. Vacation for me is about relaxing and enjoying my family.

DVC is for those of us in between. Those that can truly afford a luxury purchase AND long term commitment but not so well off that they don't care about the costs, that group will simply pay cash and not care that they're spending an extra few thousand $$$ a trip. Put another way, if savings aren't important, why buy DVC at all, simply pay cash. To buy just to belong to the club without any savings(a position we've seen here on DIS more than once), would be the height of foolishness. Thus, IMO, everyone should crunch the numbers the only question is whether to micromanage or macromanage the issue and I'm pretty sure that's your ultimate position anyway. I would also take issue with your assertion that there isn't big money to be saved. IMO the impact of DVC resale vs retail is likely far more than any savings or loss of WM vs a local store over a 10 year period for most people. ON 200 points we're talking a savings of $10K to $16K depending on the home resort and specials at the time. One can argue the savings with DVC or that it's all wasted because it's vacation but if one buys in, the difference in out of pocket dollars between one and the other is pretty dramatic for most situations.

[wulfekamp]

Resale was not as big when we purchased and the saving being dvc is not as great now as it was in the past. With added perks like free dining there are cheaper options. And calling me foolish I find very insulting just because my option and why I joined is differnt from you.

[Missyrose]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

Resale was not as big when we purchased and the saving being dvc is not as great now as it was in the past. With added perks like free dining there are cheaper options. And calling me foolish I find very insulting just because my option and why I joined is differnt from you.

But you left out very crucial details when you posted your opinion, namely that you bought many years ago (when there wasn't as large a resale market and when direct prices were MUCH more reasonable). When people are discussing today's climate, it's important to say what time period you're referring to.

[DougEMG]

Under the right conditions, resale savings can be huge. Last year I bought a SSR contract for $50/point, that came with 3 years of points already paid for. I immediately rented out those points so that my out of pocket costs were just over $20/point.

I always number crunch to justify what I'm doing!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

Resale was not as big when we purchased and the saving being dvc is not as great now as it was in the past. With added perks like free dining there are cheaper options. And calling me foolish I find very insulting just because my option and why I joined is differnt from you.

I agree, I've said the same, many things are different now but not all. However, our discussion is about buying, not having bought in the past and my statements are in that vein. To be clear, I didn't call you foolish and I'm sorry you took it that way, honestly it wasn't by intent. I did isolate a given explanation we've seen here only a few times as an extreme example and call that foolish. If by chance it applies to you, so be it, but that wasn't my intent.

[fairy8i8]

It looks like you enjoy Bonnet Creek, and the price is great! There has been a lot of great financial advice on this thread- you can't argue that making sure you are financially stable and prepared for the future before making a long term vacation purchase isn't good advise.

I have been looking into buying a small DVC contract resale just because for my vacationing habits, I have not been able to yet find an owner who wants to rent points (2 day stay off season AKV, though I haven't tried Dave's service yet, as he rents points for $13/point still trying for $11 or $12 individual). Also, I don't like not being able to talk to a resort about my reservation. I figured at least if I owned a small contract that I could easily purchase now in cash with no financial setback, even a small 25 point one, I could then pay people for a point transfer and still have control of my own booking.

If you are comparing OKW and Bonnet Creek, the resorts may be similar and have similar feels, but for me, AKL, BCV and BLT really are different either for their proximity to parks or the uniqueness of having the animals so close.

However, I am happy with a studio because I am comparing a studio to the cost of a regular hotel room in the same resort, and it's just my husband and I with a small child who still sleeps in a pack n play. Once you get into the larger sized rooms, the scenario and savings change.

My advice would be to look at the resort where you would want to stay most often, decide the villa size you are most comfortable with now for you and your husband (you can always add points later), and compare that cost to your other options. If you are happy at Bonnet Creek for the price and the lack of continued responsibility to pay (very important) then don't buy into DVC. If you truly go every year to Disney and really have a resort you love more than the alternatives, see if the savings on annual passes and buying a contract within your current budget compares favorably to what you currently pay for your vacations.

Just remember to be financial comfortable with your decision. We went to a timeshare presentation when we were first married. The manager came and tried to hard sell us. He kept trying to say I was going to spend the vacation money anyway so I should buy in to save. I shot back with a story about the previous summer where we were planning a vacation to Iceland and Europe with another couple. We had been saving for the vacation, but I had to have a root canal, and the cost was the same as our airline tickets for the two of us. Well, we didn't take a vacation that summer. Life happens. I said no way was an extra $200/month a good idea for us because if we had another emergency we couldn't use that money. My husband was in grad school, and we lived in an expensive city at the time. Now things are different. We have steady income, savings, and a kid (so we are not surprised by those costs as others have mentioned).

I would first look more short term like 3-5 years to see if it makes financial sense in that time period, including the up front cost because in reality your vacationing habits and life circumstances could be very different after that. My parents own a 3BR Christmas week in Orlando. We go every 3-5 years with my family. My parents easily rent it out the other years. They are happy with their decision and it has served them even after over 17 years. However, they did think when they first bought that we would go more often than we actually do.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by wulfekamp

I'm not saying buying resale is bad. DVC is not walmart. Your not going to save big money. There is more than saving money when it comes to DVC. I'm not going to stress myself out with all the number crunching over vacation. Vacation for me is about relaxing and enjoying my family.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that you're not going to save big money buying DVC. Last year I purchased three BWV contracts for a total of 475 points. My average price per point was $56 and I received more than 2 full years of points with each contract. Had I purchased direct my cost would have been $115 per point. By buying resale I saved $28,025. That's a pretty significant savings, and those are real numbers.

I understand that this scenario is only due to the recent widening of the gap between direct and resale, which is why I asked you when you purchased. And I completely agree that there is more than just saving money when it comes to DVC. And I completely agree that vacation is about relaxing and enjoying time with the family. However, to use this as an excuse to not price shop or to knowingly and willingly pay more (sometimes twice as much) for essentially the same thing is something that I cannot comprehend.

[RayJay]

Originally Posted by ELMC

I respectfully disagree with your statement that you're not going to save big money buying DVC. Last year I purchased three BWV contracts for a total of 475 points. My average price per point was $56 and I received more than 2 full years of points with each contract. Had I purchased direct my cost would have been $115 per point. By buying resale I saved $28,025. That's a pretty significant savings, and those are real numbers.

I understand that this scenario is only due to the recent widening of the gap between direct and resale, which is why I asked you when you purchased. And I completely agree that there is more than just saving money when it comes to DVC. And I completely agree that vacation is about relaxing and enjoying time with the family. However, to use this as an excuse to not price shop or to knowingly and willingly pay more (sometimes twice as much) for essentially the same thing is something that I cannot comprehend.

As this has been debated so many times in the past I can only think that those that buy direct do so because of ease of financing, lower payments and getting in the system right away.

I think many folks either do not have the outlay to do resale (ak pay cash) or cannot get good financing outside of Disney.

I just can't see why someone wouldn't want to save thousands, but I respect the fact that all people have choice and maybe they just feel better going thru Disney.

I first bought thru Disney because of ease and wanted the extra week they were giving away, however that was back when BCV opened and it was $72 per point and better perks.

All my purchases since have been resale, I just can't pay that full price, in fact I'm amazed Disney is getting that today.

RayJay

[Dean]

Originally Posted by RayJay

As this has been debated so many times in the past I can only think that those that buy direct do so because of ease of financing, lower payments and getting in the system right away.

I think many folks either do not have the outlay to do resale (ak pay cash) or cannot get good financing outside of Disney.

I just can't see why someone wouldn't want to save thousands, but I respect the fact that all people have choice and maybe they just feel better going thru Disney.

I first bought thru Disney because of ease and wanted the extra week they were giving away, however that was back when BCV opened and it was $72 per point and better perks.

All my purchases since have been resale, I just can't pay that full price, in fact I'm amazed Disney is getting that today.

RayJay

I think the number that simply decide to pay cash knowing all the options and ramifications are small outside the special circumstances like new resorts and small packages. Most are actually not well informed when they buy retail. There are exceptions of course.

[k3chantal]

Originally Posted by RayJay

As this has been debated so many times in the past I can only think that those that buy direct do so because of ease of financing, lower payments and getting in the system right away.

I think many folks either do not have the outlay to do resale (ak pay cash) or cannot get good financing outside of Disney.

I just can't see why someone wouldn't want to save thousands, but I respect the fact that all people have choice and maybe they just feel better going thru Disney.

I first bought thru Disney because of ease and wanted the extra week they were giving away, however that was back when BCV opened and it was $72 per point and better perks.

All my purchases since have been resale, I just can't pay that full price, in fact I'm amazed Disney is getting that today.

RayJay

There is a whole other group you are not acknowledging. The completely clueless that do not know you can buy DVC resale. We bought our direct points (280 AKL) with cash; not realizing that there were other ways to purchase. I think many people fall into this category. I stumbled into this website by a friend who likes to cruise on Disney and spent lots of time on the cruise forum before landing (and pretty much staying here; so unless you are a self teaching soul; how do you know what is out there?)

Do I feel better about going through Disney? Hmmm.....I like being able to use my points freely any way, despite the cost factor which I definitely do acknowledge. But, I think it is like buying a car. Do I feel better if I drive a brand new car off the lot or if I wait a few months and buy a car a year old. I pretty much get the same product; just one for less. So in the future if I have money not ear marked for something, I would buy resale since I have the direct points already and would be buying resale to get the 11 month window at a 'favorite' resort.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by RayJay

As this has been debated so many times in the past I can only think that those that buy direct do so because of ease of financing, lower payments and getting in the system right away.

RayJay

I think you've hit on something here. I definitely think people focus on what they are spending each month and not overall. I just don't know how they admit to not caring about the fact that it will cost triple the cost of resale over the next 10 years. I've never looked into it, but is the resale financing offered by TTS that difficult to get?

Originally Posted by k3chantal

There is a whole other group you are not acknowledging. The completely clueless that do not know you can buy DVC resale. We bought our direct points (280 AKL) with cash; not realizing that there were other ways to purchase. I think many people fall into this category. I stumbled into this website by a friend who likes to cruise on Disney and spent lots of time on the cruise forum before landing (and pretty much staying here; so unless you are a self teaching soul; how do you know what is out there?)

I think you have hit on something here too, and you make a good point. Up until the recent skyrocketing in price, DVC was a good option for those that didn't know about the resale market. So they took the tour, liked it, and bought. These are frequently the people who do pay rack rate when booking a room, so for them (and based on the information they have) it is a good option.

Personally, I knew about the rental market but not the resale market, so when I took the tour I compared purchasing to simply renting points and couldn't justify the cost. Sadly, I walked away from DVC. Fortunately, I found out about the DIS (my first 20 or so posts were actually in the ADR forums) and after searching around a bit I found this forum. I learned about DVC resale, the prices made sense, and I'm now an owner. But you're right. If you don't know then you don't know.

[DizBub]

Originally Posted by RayJay

I first bought thru Disney because of ease and wanted the extra week they were giving away, however that was back when BCV opened and it was $72 per point and better perks.

All my purchases since have been resale, I just can't pay that full price, in fact I'm amazed Disney is getting that today.

RayJay

What year did you buy BCV for $72pp, if you don't mind me asking?

Just curious because we bought BCV resale w/previous years' points last summer for $72pp. They now want $115pp direct and that's a $43pp savings for us. Don't care at all about the restrictions on those points.

We also bought BLT direct before we knew about resale but prices were $65 less than they are now. Crazy.