Thoughts on child support

[MomRN]

Originally Posted by allison443

How is it even possible for a 16 year old to live on their own, work full time and go to high school? Seriously, that's a terrible situation for parents to put their child in, in my opinion.

By full-time, I mean 32hrs+ a week. Every weekend I worked 16 hours off the top. Then, throughout the week I work 4-10ish three days a week. I missed a lot of school and my grades suffered terribly. I went from a 3.9 in middle school to a GPA of 2.0 when all of this started. I almost didn't graduate, but I did.

I won't get into my home life. It was bad, but I know many people have had it worse. My mother's mental instability and drug use was affecting me. So, I had an adult friend get a cheap apartment for me. My dad wasn't in a good situation either. One set of grandparents lived out of state and had no idea. The other one, recently widowed, tried to help but it was hard when her daughter was involved.

It was for the best really. I didn't really have much of a childhood or being a teenager. Grew up a little early. I think that's why I love Disney so much and it made me a better mother.

Anyway, back on the topic... my husband is also paying child support. It seems odd because we have her 50% of the time, carry insurance, and have always paid for "extras" but it is was it is. Fortunately, here it ends at 19, so we have about 3 more months of it.

[badblackpug]

Originally Posted by MomRN

By full-time, I mean 32hrs+ a week. Every weekend I worked 16 hours off the top. Then, throughout the week I work 4-10ish three days a week. I missed a lot of school and my grades suffered terribly. I went from a 3.9 in middle school to a GPA of 2.0 when all of this started. I almost didn't graduate, but I did.

I won't get into my home life. It was bad, but I know many people have had it worse. My mother's mental instability and drug use was affecting me. So, I had an adult friend get a cheap apartment for me. My dad wasn't in a good situation either. One set of grandparents lived out of state and had no idea. The other one, recently widowed, tried to help but it was hard when her daughter was involved.

It was for the best really. I didn't really have much of a childhood or being a teenager. Grew up a little early. I think that's why I love Disney so much and it made me a better mother.

Anyway, back on the topic... my husband is also paying child support. It seems odd because we have her 50% of the time, carry insurance, and have always paid for "extras" but it is was it is. Fortunately, here it ends at 19, so we have about 3 more months of it.

I had a friend in high school that did, basically, this, too. His home life was terrible, his parents were a mess. It's possible to do, but I feel for any child that is forced to grow up so fast.

I also don't understand the mentality of supporting adult children because, "they can't do it at their age." when I was growing up the choice was, go to school and we will help you, or get and job and move out, or pay your share.

My thought is if you are 18 and you aren't ready to support yourself, you need to get yourself into college so you can have a career where you are able to support yourself. I went to school full time, and worked part time to pay for my "extras." I was fortunate in that my parents could afford to pay my tuition, and they kept a roof over my head, but if I wanted a car, a phone, and clothes, that was my responsibility.

I really don't think that the OP should have to support an adult that has no hindrances to supporting himself. He is an adult, he is capable of full time employment. If he were a college student I would say she should continue to contribute.

OP, I suggest consulting an attorney.

[Janepod]

Originally Posted by badblackpug

I really don't think that the OP should have to support an adult that has no hindrances to supporting himself. He is an adult, he is capable of full time employment.

OP, I suggest consulting an attorney.

Philosophically, I agree with you. However, I can state from experience, that in NY the parent pays until the child is 21, no matter what. And if the kid wants to sit around, not work, and play video games all day, and the custodial parent allows it, there's not a damn thing the noncustodial parent can do.** Watched it happen three times on my husband's side of the family. No point in wasting money on a lawyer.

Side note: when one of the girls got knocked up at 19, the mother (custodial parent) told her not to marry the father of the child or the payments would stop. Sure enough, noncustodial parent had to keep making child support payments. (Even after spending $$ on lawyers.)

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by Southernmiss

As the poster who said 18 still needs parental support, I would certainly be cutting him off by 21 at the latest if the bolded is true.

For the record, DH and I put ourselves through college and married as babies at 21 and were self sufficient working full time by then.

But I do realize that things have changed somewhat in the last 23 years and cost of living has risen, but pay hasn't in many areas. So it will be interesting as we navigate this with our 4 kids.

Our DS who is in college really doesn't ask for $ (he referees high school soccer and has scholarships) and today I surprised him and did pay for his back to college necessities when we were shopping at Walmart. Although, he doesn't pay his own insurances (health or car) and if it weren't for college scholarships and campus food I am not sure how he'd eat.

We also paid our daughter's insurances while she was in school (car and health) and helped out from time to time. She had scholarships, some loans, and worked part-time year round all the way through. She set up a budget and stuck to it. Honestly, I was amazed at how frugal she was, and I was proud of her.

[Tinker'n'Fun]

My husband was ordered to pay for my step-son until 21. He heard through the grapevine (they are estranged) that his son was working and had dropped out of school not once, but twice. Even though DH was court ordered to pay for health insurance he had his mothers and she never once used ours.

OT a bit, but DH sent a letter to her case worker and asked that a yearly review be done. We received a refund check and a letter stating he was emancipated a few months later. So yes it can be adjusted. NY state here.

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by Tinker'n'Fun

My husband was ordered to pay for my step-son until 21. He heard through the grapevine (they are estranged) that his son was working and had dropped out of school not once, but twice. Even though DH was court ordered to pay for health insurance he had his mothers and she never once used ours.

OT a bit, but DH sent a letter to her case worker and asked that a yearly review be done. We received a refund check and a letter stating he was emancipated a few months later. So yes it can be adjusted. NY state here.

I know of a case where the father was required to provide health insurance but lost his job when his company closed. The mother offered to put the children on her insurance (which didn't cost her anything), but the father had to PAY her to do it.

Sometime later, they were in court (the father was seeking custody due to several reasons). The father had a different job by then, but it did not include health insurance so he was still paying the mother to have the children on her insurance. He always paid all of anything not covered by insurance (the mother paid nothing).

Because the mother was angry that he was trying to get custody (long story, but he was trying to do the right thing for his children), her attorney filed contempt of court charges against the father for not having the children covered (remember, he was paying the mother to cover them when it cost her nothing to start with). He was actually found to be in contempt of court because they were not on HIS insurance. As they left the courtroom, they heard someone that they didn't even know say, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of."

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Originally Posted by horseshowmom

I know of a case where the father was required to provide health insurance but lost his job when his company closed. The mother offered to put the children on her insurance (which didn't cost her anything), but the father had to PAY her to do it.

Sometime later, they were in court (the father was seeking custody due to several reasons). The father had a different job by then, but it did not include health insurance so he was still paying the mother to have the children on her insurance. He always paid all of anything not covered by insurance (the mother paid nothing).

Because the mother was angry that he was trying to get custody (long story, but he was trying to do the right thing for his children), her attorney filed contempt of court charges against the father for not having the children covered (remember, he was paying the mother to cover them when it cost her nothing to start with). He was actually found to be in contempt of court because they were not on HIS insurance. As they left the courtroom, they heard someone that they didn't even know say, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of."

I totally believe it. DH's Ex took him to court one too many times. So my husband found a great lawyer with a very good reputation around the family court buildings. He immediately started a file and the next stupid thing she served on DH, our lawyer pounced. The judge put a set child support amount for DH and capped it. We had been paying way more than the percentage and offered more. His EX actually made more money than him. The judge said he was "disgusted" at her actions and well that didn't make for pleasant visits. I think that was about the beginning of the "estrangement". As always there is a lot more to the story, but it gets sticky and all that jazz.

[badblackpug]

Originally Posted by Janepod

Philosophically, I agree with you. However, I can state from experience, that in NY the parent pays until the child is 21, no matter what. And if the kid wants to sit around, not work, and play video games all day, and the custodial parent allows it, there's not a damn thing the noncustodial parent can do.** Watched it happen three times on my husband's side of the family. No point in wasting money on a lawyer.

Side note: when one of the girls got knocked up at 19, the mother (custodial parent) told her not to marry the father of the child or the payments would stop. Sure enough, noncustodial parent had to keep making child support payments. (Even after spending $$ on lawyers.)

Oh I know, that was just my opinion. I was just really surprised that people would say an 18 year old is incapable of supporting themselves. It wouldn't be easy, and they wouldn't be living in the lap of luxury, or even enjoying the lifestyle they had in their parents house, but it's doable. Lots of people have had worse or more difficult starts and have made it.

I absolutely want my kids to go to college, and as of now, they are saying they want to, but they are aware if they choose not to get some sort of education, they will have to get a job. I'm not working my butt off so some adult can sit in the basement and play xbox.

[kaligal]

I would be ashamed to be married to man who asked how little he could do for his children instead of how much.

I am always sickened and saddened when I hear or read this stuff.

I have a friend who does family law. She said these guys (and the new wives) come in all the time trying to screw their children and exes out of money. It sickens her and pisses her off.

I suppose people must tell their lawyers that they want to do as little as legally possible for their children, but it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself under other circumstances. It just makes decent people think you're a jerk and a loser.

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by Tinker'n'Fun

I totally believe it. DH's Ex took him to court one too many times. So my husband found a great lawyer with a very good reputation around the family court buildings. He immediately started a file and the next stupid thing she served on DH, our lawyer pounced. The judge put a set child support amount for DH and capped it. We had been paying way more than the percentage and offered more. His EX actually made more money than him. The judge said he was "disgusted" at her actions and well that didn't make for pleasant visits. I think that was about the beginning of the "estrangement". As always there is a lot more to the story, but it gets sticky and all that jazz.

This particular family wound up in similar circumstances unfortunately. One of the children actually quit high school and moved in with a friend of his (with the mother's blessing). The dad tried and tried to do something about it (making him look like the bad guy who was trying stop the boy's "fun"). The teenage boy was actually sleeping with a married girl (a couple of years older than him and the daughter of one of mom's friends). Her husband wouldn't give her a divorce so they were trying to get pregnant to force his hand (and did). That boy is estranged from his father as well. Very sad situation that broke the father's heart.

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by kaligal

I would be ashamed to be married to man who asked how little he could do for his children instead of how much.

I am always sickened and saddened when I hear or read this stuff.

I have a friend who does family law. She said these guys (and the new wives) come in all the time trying to screw their children and exes out of money. It sickens her and pisses her off.

I suppose people must tell their lawyers that they want to do as little as legally possible for their children, but it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself under other circumstances. It just makes decent people think you're a jerk and a loser.

Really? The young man is employed full-time and not enrolled in college. He is old enough to join the military if he chooses. Why should someone still be supporting him? We aren't talking about a young child.

I realize that some people do behave the way you are describing with their minor children, and it is certainly not acceptable at all. I didn't see anything in the OP's post to indicate that had happened in the past - may or may not be the case, we have no way of knowing. However, we're now talking about a young man who has reached the age of majority (including in the state of New York where they live).

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Originally Posted by kaligal

I would be ashamed to be married to man who asked how little he could do for his children instead of how much.

I am always sickened and saddened when I hear or read this stuff.

I have a friend who does family law. She said these guys (and the new wives) come in all the time trying to screw their children and exes out of money. It sickens her and pisses her off.

I suppose people must tell their lawyers that they want to do as little as legally possible for their children, but it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself under other circumstances. It just makes decent people think you're a jerk and a loser.

Sometimes it is not too little. My DH paid over his amount and paid out for insurance that wasn't used for years. He paid for extras, clothes when he came to visit, video games that were thrown out, etc.

Just because a husband wants his child support adjusted and or stopped do to circumstances, doesn't always mean a dead-beat father. The stereo-type just well, sucks! My husband is far from a loser because he stopped his support. He actually was hoping to give the money directly to his son so he could benefit from the money.

I think it was stated before but the custodial parent can use that money how ever they want. You don't get a say and that is fine. But if the child is out and making their own money and doing adult things, it is time to stop. We would also do the same for any child living in our house also.

And I agree, there are many "JERKS" out there, but I know they are both Mothers and Fathers and it is not always one sided.

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by Tinker'n'Fun

Sometimes it is not too little. My DH paid over his amount and paid out for insurance that wasn't used for years. He paid for extras, clothes when he came to visit, video games that were thrown out, etc.

Just because a husband wants his child support adjusted and or stopped do to circumstances, doesn't always mean a dead-beat father. The stereo-type just well, sucks! My husband is far from a loser because he stopped his support. He actually was hoping to give the money directly to his son so he could benefit from the money.

I think it was stated before but the custodial parent can use that money how ever they want. You don't get a say and that is fine. But if the child is out and making their own money and doing adult things, it is time to stop. We would also do the same for any child living in our house also.

And I agree, there are many "JERKS" out there, but I know they are both Mothers and Fathers and it is not always one sided.

I agree. The situation that I mentioned above was similar. The dad paid child support and also bought clothes to keep at his house as well as to send home because what they had to wear was pitiful. Most of the haircuts they got were when they were with him. When one of them wanted to take piano lessons at school, she refused, and he was the one who sent the checks to the school to pay for it.

He made and carried them to every dentist appointment they ever had (depending on where she lived at the time, it was generally about a hour to her house, and he had to go get them - she wouldn't even meet him half way).

The mom, OTOH, was always dressed to the nines and kept up her hair very nicely - highlights and all - I know mine run about $100 a trip. She was always living with a boyfriend or new husband who paid the house expenses (she's currently married to her seventh husband. She always had plenty of party time as well.

Yes, this is all true. I didn't blame the dad at all for trying to adjust his child support when she let the boy move out at 16. He had tried to get custody twice and had no luck.

[mfd25wife]

Originally Posted by can'tgetenufofwdw

I appreciate all of the opinions and thoughts. This is such a sensitive subject for me and am trying to be objective as I read everyone's thoughts. I have to believe in Karma. It's the only thing that keeps me sane in this mess.

Considering my ex owes me ~ $10,000 (she's 20 now), and my current DH paid for years and his ex would still not use the money on DSS (we or grandparents still paid for clothes, etc), I definitely understand. Exes that are only out for themselves make you want to scream and kick things.

[brockash]

Originally Posted by can'tgetenufofwdw

Just looking for opinions, not a debate.
If a child (18 1/2 yrs) is not attending college, has a job making $11 an hour with a 401k, health benefits and paid vacation days..... should the parent whom he or she does not live with be paying support???? State law says until 21 but he/she is virtually self supporting. What do you think would happen in court???????????????????? Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?
Technically the child is not living with dad but with grandparent in grandparents house. Dad happens to live there too.

If the law states 21, then yes the person should still pay child support until the kid is 21.

My personal opinion about the whole child support thing, is that in any average "divorced parents, one pays child support," the person paying the child support almost never pays anywhere near half of what the cost of raising that child actually is...so really I don't feel really at all for the person still required to pay their amount of "child support" in this type of situation.

Obviously there are always exceptions, but I'm speaking generally.