Making sense out of insanity (DVC purchase)

[Sandisw]

One thing to also think about though is that rental and cash prices at Disney will also go up so while MF's will too, IMO, I think they are probably close to being a wash.


In terms of financing, I definitely think that one should consider it impact on final cost, but I also am one who thinks that there is no right or wrong way to look at it. We went to Disney for years, paying cash and spending around $4000 to $5000 a year for the trip. When we were deciding, we looked at what it would cost to own DVC, including using Disney's rates and decided if we could own it for no more than we were currently paying for our cash stays, the it might be worth it. We realized that even with the finance, we could get our typical 5 night summer stay at BLT in a 1 bedroom vs. just a deluxe room. So, while I wasn't necessarily saving, but rather getting much bigger and better rooms for around the same price. And, after 10 years and I was no longer paying the payment, my costs would indeed be less. For us personally, we would continue to go, had money to spend yearly for vacation, and didn't care if that paid for a cash room or finance charges.

In the end, we didn't end up needing to use Disney to cover the cost and given the 6 months, no interest with our Disney Visa, we had it covered. But, we considered it all and felt comfortable making the decision.

Given how you have laid it out, and are comfortable with renting--we were not--it may a good idea to investigate further to make sure you want to commit to dVC, because honestly, I think that is really the bigger picture--going to Disney year after year and all the food, ticket, and transportation costs that go along with it.

Good luck!

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Sandisw

One thing to also think about though is that rental and cash prices at Disney will also go up so while MF's will too, IMO, I think they are probably close to being a wash.


In terms of financing, I definitely think that one should consider it impact on final cost, but I also am one who thinks that there is no right or wrong way to look at it. We went to Disney for years, paying cash and spending around $4000 to $5000 a year for the trip. When we were deciding, we looked at what it would cost to own DVC, including using Disney's rates and decided if we could own it for no more than we were currently paying for our cash stays, the it might be worth it. We realized that even with the finance, we could get our typical 5 night summer stay at BLT in a 1 bedroom vs. just a deluxe room. So, while I wasn't necessarily saving, but rather getting much bigger and better rooms for around the same price. And, after 10 years and I was no longer paying the payment, my costs would indeed be less. For us personally, we would continue to go, had money to spend yearly for vacation, and didn't care if that paid for a cash room or finance charges.

In the end, we didn't end up needing to use Disney to cover the cost and given the 6 months, no interest with our Disney Visa, we had it covered. But, we considered it all and felt comfortable making the decision.

Given how you have laid it out, and are comfortable with renting--we were not--it may a good idea to investigate further to make sure you want to commit to dVC, because honestly, I think that is really the bigger picture--going to Disney year after year and all the food, ticket, and transportation costs that go along with it.

Good luck!

One thing to consider is that when you bought BLT direct with financing it was probably around $110 a point. Now at $165 a point it is a completely different situation. Some may disagree, but for me, with the gap between resale and direct prices being as big as it is now, there are very few situations that justify a direct purchase.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

I love Disney, and I could see myself taking a trip there every year until infinity. I should be a perfect candidate for the DVC, I'm 27 and married 3 years in April. DVC should provide vacation for my wife and I and future children for decades to come.

160 points, purchased resale at Old Key West price $60 per point ~$10,000
maintenance fees per year ~ $850

I could rent 160 points from an owner at $11 per point and pay $1,760. DVC ownership saves me $910 ($1,760-$850 main fees) a year, but only after approx. 11 years have passed. If we use it until 2057, that nets a savings of close to $30,000. (33 years of only paying main. fees on 160 points).

Am I missing something here, or is it that good of a deal? Here's the main hang up I have, I don't have $10,000 to lay out. I'd have to borrow the money, and that adds to the cost. At 10% APR on $10,000, that's $132 a month for 10 years, making the purchase price more like $15,840 and making my projected savings to be about $24,000 once we reach the contract's end in 2057 saving us $545 a year vs renting points at $11 per point.

Is it worth laying out all that money and making that much of a commitment to save a maximum $545 a year for 44 years? (probably much less considering increases in maintenance fees)

Realistically, I don't think I'll be able to get a personal loan to pay $10,000 off over 10 years, so I'd have to buy direct from DVC at $16,000 for 160 OKW points in order to get financing. At that point it's $211 per month for 10 years making my DVC cost for the first 10 years $25,320 + 44 years of main. fees ($37,400).

That's $62,720 for 44 years of 160 points at current main. fees. That's $8.90 per point saving $2.10 per point vs renting at $11 per point. Over 44 years that saves $14,784 or $336 a year.

On one hand, over 44 years I will be saving money, not losing money- even with financing the purchase. On the other hand, it's a huge commitment and 44 years is an eternity. Not borrowing to purchase DVC would net me the max savings ($910 per year on average). Not sure if I'll be able to swing that though.

Do my numbers make sense? What do most of you project your cost per point to be over the life your DVC contract? Ever wish you could get out of it altogether and just rent points when you want?

I know it's not a very popular opinion around here but I don't think people should go on vacation if they can't afford it (without financing it including CC not paid off when the bill arives), much less take on a long term expensive commitment.

[Illini Al]

I've been studying these boards for a couple years and I'm not yet an owner (and may never be), but IMO, no one should buying into what is clearly an expensive luxury without having the following taken care of:
1. Emergency Funds
2. College savings for your kids
3. Retirement savings
I can also think of several other things before dropping big bucks into DVC (House, weddings, etc). Everyone should take the emotion out of buying DVC and think logically about your family's future. I'm done with the need for #2, have plenty of #1 and #3, and I'm still trying to justify the cost. Everyone has their own priorities, but it sure is tough to say that DVC is more important than the above 3. Congrats if you can do it all and DVC. Good luck to all who are considering first time purchases.

[blackacex2]

OP here- great discussion everyone. I think even with kids bonnet creek is ok because it is on site. It is closer to Epcot and Hollywood Studios than Okw, SSR, and Port Orleans. I would rather stay in a Disney resort for that intangible magical feeling, but because a 1 bedroom DVC sooo much more expensive it just is hard to stomach.

Our April trip will cost us $514 for 6 nights at 1 bedroom suite at bonnet creek. Seventh night is free at swan/dolphin from credit card points. Rental car and flights are free because of credit card points. Two five day park tickets are $540 from undercover tourist. I figure another $700 for food (planning to eat 5 nice dinners). So our vacation cost about $1,800 for a week.

The packages for a 1 bedroom with park tickets with 30% off room right now is $3,373 at Okw. That's more than $2200 more to stay at a dvc resort that's farther from the parks than bonnet creek!

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by Dean

I know it's not a very popular opinion around here but I don't think people should go on vacation if they can't afford it (without financing it including CC not paid off when the bill arives), much less take on a long term expensive commitment.

I agree with you, Dean.

We originally went to WDW staying off site, then moved to value resorts, then moderate resorts, skipped the deluxe resorts and then eventually bought DVC. We didn't buy DVC till we had no other debit and that includes having no mortgage and only once i was convinced i would have a fast break even on my purchase of DVC, which for me was 6-7 years.

DVC is a long term luxury purchase. If you aren't comfortable making that commitment now, wait a few years till your finances are in better shape, DVC will still be there.

You don't need to own DVC to enjoy going to WDW.

[JessB320]

We LOVE bonnet creek!! BUT Don't buy into their sales pitch!!! If you decide to buy into the wyndam timeshare you can buy contracts off of eBay for a few hundred dollars (including all fees/closing costs) I know you are looking at DVC so just a warning wyndam can be pretty persuasive when you are actually there, and if you have already been thinking about timeshares in general.... You see where I'm going

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

OP here- great discussion everyone. I think even with kids bonnet creek is ok because it is on site. It is closer to Epcot and Hollywood Studios than Okw, SSR, and Port Orleans. I would rather stay in a Disney resort for that intangible magical feeling, but because a 1 bedroom DVC sooo much more expensive it just is hard to stomach.

Our April trip will cost us $514 for 6 nights at 1 bedroom suite at bonnet creek. Seventh night is free at swan/dolphin from credit card points. Rental car and flights are free because of credit card points. Two five day park tickets are $540 from undercover tourist. I figure another $700 for food (planning to eat 5 nice dinners). So our vacation cost about $1,800 for a week.

The packages for a 1 bedroom with park tickets with 30% off room right now is $3,373 at Okw. That's more than $2200 more to stay at a dvc resort that's farther from the parks than bonnet creek!

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

So now you see exactly why DVC is a luxury purchase. Enjoy your trip in April and all that money you saved over staying at OKW.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

OP here- great discussion everyone. I think even with kids bonnet creek is ok because it is on site. It is closer to Epcot and Hollywood Studios than Okw, SSR, and Port Orleans. I would rather stay in a Disney resort for that intangible magical feeling, but because a 1 bedroom DVC sooo much more expensive it just is hard to stomach.

Our April trip will cost us $514 for 6 nights at 1 bedroom suite at bonnet creek. Seventh night is free at swan/dolphin from credit card points. Rental car and flights are free because of credit card points. Two five day park tickets are $540 from undercover tourist. I figure another $700 for food (planning to eat 5 nice dinners). So our vacation cost about $1,800 for a week.

The packages for a 1 bedroom with park tickets with 30% off room right now is $3,373 at Okw. That's more than $2200 more to stay at a dvc resort that's farther from the parks than bonnet creek!

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

Bonnet Creek is a great resort and will definitely save money but it is not closer to all the parks than OKW.

[myxdvz]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

I'm not going to dispute the outrageous prices. But as with anything, it is supply and demand. Even with it's outrageous prices, they are still filling the parks, and thus resorting to a FP+ solution (or whatever the impetus is) and other ways to manage the crowd.

Anyways, I guess my point is that I don't believe that people "don't understand". I believe it is a conscious choice that people are making. After all, excellent experience is very subjective - it's more an emotional choice than a rational or financial choice.

Some people feel it is worth the extra price to have the whole experience. And some people feel that the same experience can be had without paying the Disney prices. Both are ok.

It's like saying people don't understand that you can still get to your destination driving a Corolla vs a Camaro/Porsche. I think people understand, but are making personal subjective decisions.

[lovin'fl]

I don't know what Bonnet Creek is...well I know a little now from this thread and going on their website...but is there a trick to getting a great rate? I put in a week in July (when we may be going for a softball tourney at WWoS and not for the parks) and it's $1428 with AAA discount for a 1 bedroom suite. No thanks! OP- how did you get that rate...even with the non-refundable 25% off it's still about $200/night in April. Is that rate for agreeing to go to a timeshare talk?

[myxdvz]

Originally Posted by lovin'fl

I don't know what Bonnet Creek is...well I know a little now from this thread and going on their website...but is there a trick to getting a great rate? I put in a week in July (when we may be going for a softball tourney at WWoS and not for the parks) and it's $1428 with AAA discount for a 1 bedroom suite. No thanks! OP- how did you get that rate...even with the non-refundable 25% off it's still about $200/night in April. Is that rate for agreeing to go to a timeshare talk?

Or maybe renting from Wyndham owners?

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again", which surprised me coz I've read good reviews here at DIS.

[k3chantal]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

I love Disney, and I could see myself taking a trip there every year until infinity. I should be a perfect candidate for the DVC, I'm 27 and married 3 years in April. DVC should provide vacation for my wife and I and future children for decades to come.

160 points, purchased resale at Old Key West price $60 per point ~$10,000
maintenance fees per year ~ $850

I could rent 160 points from an owner at $11 per point and pay $1,760. DVC ownership saves me $910 ($1,760-$850 main fees) a year, but only after approx. 11 years have passed. If we use it until 2057, that nets a savings of close to $30,000. (33 years of only paying main. fees on 160 points).

Am I missing something here, or is it that good of a deal? Here's the main hang up I have, I don't have $10,000 to lay out. I'd have to borrow the money, and that adds to the cost. At 10% APR on $10,000, that's $132 a month for 10 years, making the purchase price more like $15,840 and making my projected savings to be about $24,000 once we reach the contract's end in 2057 saving us $545 a year vs renting points at $11 per point.

Is it worth laying out all that money and making that much of a commitment to save a maximum $545 a year for 44 years? (probably much less considering increases in maintenance fees)

Realistically, I don't think I'll be able to get a personal loan to pay $10,000 off over 10 years, so I'd have to buy direct from DVC at $16,000 for 160 OKW points in order to get financing. At that point it's $211 per month for 10 years making my DVC cost for the first 10 years $25,320 + 44 years of main. fees ($37,400).

That's $62,720 for 44 years of 160 points at current main. fees. That's $8.90 per point saving $2.10 per point vs renting at $11 per point. Over 44 years that saves $14,784 or $336 a year.

On one hand, over 44 years I will be saving money, not losing money- even with financing the purchase. On the other hand, it's a huge commitment and 44 years is an eternity. Not borrowing to purchase DVC would net me the max savings ($910 per year on average). Not sure if I'll be able to swing that though.

Do my numbers make sense? What do most of you project your cost per point to be over the life your DVC contract? Ever wish you could get out of it altogether and just rent points when you want?

Guess I am a non- trusting person. I would not want to ever just get out of it and rent points when I want. I like the control of having my own points; I like playing with the different ways I can use them; I like fantasizing about the future vacations I know I will take; in all the different combinations I can configure. I like knowing that I am guaranteed an opportunity to make a reservation at resorts I previous would never have entertained visiting and that each of my family members will have a fantastic time while there.

With all of that said and with absolutely no regret with my purchase, I would never finance this purchase. This is certainly not about saving money. Regardless of how the purchase is made you will spend more money on Disney and vacationing there if you have DVC. Why? See my above paragraph. If you are thinking about financing this purchase that means that you don't have the cash available to buy it outright and thus the finance charges will make this luxury purchase even more expensive.

I think to be a satisfied DVC owner you need to make enough money where every dime is not analyzed and stressed over where it is going. Of course there are those, here on this forum, who love to crunch the numbers. That is a very different scenario. I don't know any of their financial situations but I have a feeling, that they find the number crunching and justification of buying resale satisfying and it is done not only to try to save money but to pat themselves on the back that they got the most of their purchase. I would like to believe this is not because they have to be so prudent.

So I would go ahead and love Disney and take your yearly trips and I would go ahead and try to save the money (not a bad idea anyway). If after you have enough cash to buy it outright and you still are interested in DVC, then I would consider it because only then will it really feel right.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by k3chantal

I think to be a satisfied DVC owner you need to make enough money where every dime is not analyzed and stressed over where it is going. Of course there are those, here on this forum, who love to crunch the numbers. That is a very different scenario. I don't know any of their financial situations but I have a feeling, that they find the number crunching and justification of buying resale satisfying and it is done not only to try to save money but to pat themselves on the back that they got the most of their purchase. I would like to believe this is not because they have to be so prudent.

Very insightful and not that far from the truth.

[JimMIA]

Wyndham Bonnet Creek:

1. As Sammie said, it is NOT closer to Epcot than OKW or MK. But it's not that much farther away -- a matter of 2-3 minutes drive time. It IS somewhat closer to DHS and AK. They also have free scheduled bus service to all theme parks and DTD.
2. If staying at WBC, renting from an owner is the key to low rates. 1 BR's are typically <$600 per week and 2 BR's are typically <$900 per week. They also have 3 & 4 BRs. (And no, we don't rent our Wyndham points)
3. Wyndham sales presentations (at any Wyndham resort) should be avoided at all cost. You don't need the parking pass they use to lure you to the sales weasels, the incentives are not worth the time, and Wyndham sales tactics are among the sleeziest in a sleezy industry. They will absolutely tell blatant lies; there is NOTHING they won't tell you to get you to buy. And...they won't let you leave until you say yes.
   
   Wyndham is a very nice timeshare system, but their sales force really is rotten. They are a terrible reflection on an otherwise great company.
   
   And, you can buy Wyndham for virtually nothing on eBay.