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Old 10-25-2012, 09:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
I love everyone's thoughts - and - within a year / 5 years we can go back and revisit this thread. My opinion is this: WDW is looking to make money on this. I have worked with (not for) them! Am not saying it could / should / will backfire - it certainly may! But, there is green envisioned at the end of this rainbow (In there Humble Opinion)!

They ARE A BUSINESS! Walt and his Utopian vision went out the door 40 years ago! They make capital expenditures not to make our lives easier - they do it for profit! And, that is the question you have to answer: How do they profit from this expenditure? We are all just trying to figure out where that profit comes from!

They are spending Kajillion's on this project - and - the guys in Cali do not say: "Ok, here is a Kajillion - I certainly hope our customers like it!"! They say: "Tell me how long until I make 2 Kajillion on my 1 Kajillion investment?".

Could be: Increased Occupancy (DVC and Cash Property)? Note: Which also means more shopping / dining.
Could be: Increased Ticket Sales?
Could be: Increased Ticket Prices?
Will not be: Value to Customer - unless that brings increased Occupancy, Sales or Prices.

The profit motive, IMHO, must be: Increased DVC sales, more hotel occupancy, increased AP Tix sales. To that end, it will be made available to those staying on property or buying an AP!

While I could be totally wrong - I know them well enough to say that they do not invest Green Money without a Green return!
I totally agree. It is for a profit and along the way we create some fantastic memories/family vacation.

It is not cool waiting in lines for over an hour with a kid. Universal is making tons a money. You pay more to stay onsite, but you can go to the front of the line on almost all of the rides. Same there with seasons: certain times of year you can ride 5 times in a row with no wait and sometimes you may wait 5-25 minutes. Their parks open early for guests and you use your room key for front of the line access. USF also has meal plans with gratuity included, movies & a meal deal and on-site transportation. Now USF will come to a Disney resort and pick you up to go stay at their hotels. Profit, profit, profits. They're adding value hotels too. I understand that everyone wants the same perks (sometimes) and I kn
ow that everyone has different budgets. That's the way of life. However, if you are paying 3K - 6K for your vacation, you should have some additional perks.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:54 AM   #47
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Some great thoughts on this thread.


We can all run round the park playing FP swopsies. "I swop you my HM 11am RT for your BTM 1pm RT time"
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:06 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
My opinion is this: WDW is looking to make money on this.

(snip)

They ARE A BUSINESS! Walt and his Utopian vision went out the door 40 years ago!
All of that goes without saying. It was true in Walt's day (he didn't build Disneyland thinking it would be a charitable money pit) and it's true of all businesses.

Some ways in which it will impact the bottom line are obvious. When they go paperless (or close to it), they eliminate most paper ticket costs including printing, waste disposal, maintenance on the machines, etc. Each FP distribution point is staffed by a Cast Member so if those go away--or are combined into a much smaller centralized location solely for people not on the FP+ system--there would be significant labor savings.

It has been speculated that RFID-enabled theme park gates would be easier for guests to utilize, thus requiring fewer CMs to monitor each station.

Hotel occupancy could see some uptick if FP+ is a hotel exclusive.

The wristbands would almost certainly be an optional purchase so that represents additional revenue.

And there can be tremendous value in bringing something to the table which is unique from the competition. Much of the RFID tech which has been discussed (and speculated upon) could be a substantial difference-maker when comparing Disney to Universal and other lesser competitors.

This isn't solely about achieving a 20% hotel occupancy or rate increase...it's about streamlining many areas to reduce costs, increase revenue and improve the guest experience (which ultimately helps with the revenues.)

In my mind, the primary unanswered question is how aggressive Disney thinks it can be in trying to leverage the new tech. Would they really eliminate FP entirely for off-site guests? Would they try to end the "free dining" promos? Would they impose different levels of FP+ depending upon the guest's resort selection (i.e. better benefits for Deluxe than Value)?

The suits may have access to a lot of guest surveys and other market research but they've had their share of missteps. The most aggressive moves available also have the greatest potential to backfire.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
Would they try to end the "free dining" promos?
I think that is here to stay since Disney's main competition is cruises and beach all-inclusive properties. Your meals are rolled into the cost of both of those.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:30 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
In my mind, the primary unanswered question is how aggressive Disney thinks it can be in trying to leverage the new tech. Would they really eliminate FP entirely for off-site guests? Would they try to end the "free dining" promos? Would they impose different levels of FP+ depending upon the guest's resort selection (i.e. better benefits for Deluxe than Value)?
I think we are one TJ! It is really an interesting question. As you said, there are many ways to do it:
  • Based on Hotel Stay.
  • Incentive for Hotel Stays.
  • Incentive for DVC Purchase.
  • Incentive for Dining Option.
  • Incentive for AP Sale.
  • Incentive for Credit Card Acquisition.


In the end - I think everyone get a certain number of FP's - but - others will get more as an incentive to spend cash.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:01 PM   #51
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Interesting take

So, if they give differing FP+ opportunities for differing levels of resort or ticket Ap ,DVC etc, then does there become a black market for selling the underlying FP perks. Here I was thinking of becoming a bacon smuggler when bacon becomes scarce next year, when maybe I could sell Fp times for the roller coaster rides I never do anyhoo!
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:19 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
Will not be: Value to Customer - unless that brings increased Occupancy, Sales or Prices.
I think you have a skewed notion of what a business IS.

In your slathering haste to brand Disney the money grubbing bad guy, it's become obvious you don't really understand the meaning of the word "value."

To me, paying more to experience attractions without waiting as long IS a value. It may not be a value to everyone, but, things seldom are.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob NC View Post
I think you have a skewed notion of what a business IS.

In your slathering haste to brand Disney the money grubbing bad guy, it's become obvious you don't really understand the meaning of the word "value."

To me, paying more to experience attractions without waiting as long IS a value. It may not be a value to everyone, but, things seldom are.

No, after running my own successful business's for 30 years - and actually contracting staff to WDW 15 years ago (over a 2 year period) - I think I have a pretty good idea on the situation.

I do value Disney's quest for excellence - I do value their quest for guest comfort - I do value their quest to protect good values. I have also seen their quest to protect shareholder value.

As I stated: "You do not spend a Kajillion dollers unless you plan to make 2 Kajillion." That is why my 2011 10-Day NE cost me twice what they cost me in 2008. That IS BUSINESS: You first start with a Profit / Loss analysis - you go from there.

I never called it Money-Grubbing - that was your assertion. They are owned by Shareholders - which includes me. I simply stated that they are not going to invest millions unless there is a Profit when they are done. As a Shareholder if they invested millions and millions that brings zero return - I would have serious questions!

You said it yourself: I will pay more for more fastpass - that brings in more money - so where do we disagree?

Last edited by bom_noite; 10-28-2012 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:56 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
No, after running my own successful business's for 30 years - and actually contracting staff to WDW 15 years ago (over a 2 year period) - I think I have a pretty good idea on the situation.

I do value Disney's quest for excellence - I do value their quest for guest comfort - I do value their quest to protect good values. I have also seen their quest to protect shareholder value.

As I stated: "You do not spend a Kajillion dollers unless you plan to make 2 Kajillion." That is why my 2011 10-Day NE cost me twice what they cost me in 2008. That IS BUSINESS: You first start with a Profit / Loss analysis - you go from there.

I never called it Money-Grubbing - that was your assertion. They are owned by Shareholders - which includes me. I simply stated that they are not going to invest millions unless there is a Profit when they are done. As a Shareholder if they invested millions and millions that brings zero return - I would have serious questions!

You said it yourself: I will pay more for more fastpass - that brings in more money - so where do we disagree?
Remember, though...profit isn't exclusively the realm of revenue.

Disney might not be banking on/modeling on a huge increase in revenue, based on FP+. There may be some of that, to be sure (additional on site occupancy), but it might not be the most significant piece of the puzzle.

They could very well be modeling on a reduction in overall expenses based on staffing and overhead efficiencies. In other words, FP+ helps them plan out the use of resources to such a standard of efficiency that they see an overall reduction in costs....without reducing (and possibly seeing an uptick in) revenue or (significantly) overall guest satisfaction.

They spent millions on the original FP idea...with an eye on driving guests to profit centers instead of lines. It had the added effect of increasing guest satisfaction. But they didn't actually CHARGE more (as in...an additional set added price) to use it...because it looks like they projected out that the additional guest spending would largely cover costs. Now, you can argue they might have amortized it into future ticket price increases..it's possible. But they certainly didn't jump ticket prices, at the point that FP was introduced, to a level that you would think covered development costs.

In any event, I'm not sure they'll change to an added set product price with the advent of FP+...we'll see.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #55
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Remember also, there are people out there that don't want to be at the park at 9 AM. They show up at noon and are GUARANTEED a 2 hour wait for Toy Story Mania. Now suddenly I can show up at DHS at noon and still have a FP for TSM? Certainly there are some people that will see value in that.
My wife normally doesn't hit the parks till the afternoon, so being able to advance book a number of rides with FP+ would be an excellent option for her.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #56
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Regardless of the specifics, I don't see any other announcement they could make at this event other than FP+. Maybe WDW could do an update on Avatar-land or the more pertinent matter of park benches (I can easily see them doing this), but it seems that FP+ will be more likely as I've heard from numerous sources that the FP+ announcement is coming before the end of 2012; then again, they could be wrong.

Anyways, I think the DHS Cars Land announcement (if that happens), Star Wars attractions announcements (highly doubt anymore will be added), and an Avatar-land update (if they don't do it in this the 12/7 presentation) will take place at D23 2013 Expo.

Due to NF, there will be increased attendance at MK and WDW will want to encourage all these visitors to stay onsite, so it would make sense for them to introduce such a "revolutionary" new perk for staying at an official DRH.

Also, WDW doesn't want UOR to steal FLE's thunder so it would make sense for them to make another announcement but not a big enough one to overshadow the FLE to keep them in the news. The date also comes over a month after UOR's Transformers announcement giving that announcement enough time to wear off. However, I do think UOR will make the WWoHP2 announcement just a short time after the FP+ announcement attempting to overshadow that and the FLE.

Whatever happens, it ought to be interesting!
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:01 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
I love everyone's thoughts - and - within a year / 5 years we can go back and revisit this thread. My opinion is this: WDW is looking to make money on this. I have worked with (not for) them! Am not saying it could / should / will backfire - it certainly may! But, there is green envisioned at the end of this rainbow (In there Humble Opinion)!

They ARE A BUSINESS! Walt and his Utopian vision went out the door 40 years ago! They make capital expenditures not to make our lives easier - they do it for profit! And, that is the question you have to answer: How do they profit from this expenditure? We are all just trying to figure out where that profit comes from!

They are spending Kajillion's on this project - and - the guys in Cali do not say: "Ok, here is a Kajillion - I certainly hope our customers like it!"! They say: "Tell me how long until I make 2 Kajillion on my 1 Kajillion investment?".

Could be: Increased Occupancy (DVC and Cash Property)? Note: Which also means more shopping / dining.
Could be: Increased Ticket Sales?
Could be: Increased Ticket Prices?
Will not be: Value to Customer - unless that brings increased Occupancy, Sales or Prices.

The profit motive, IMHO, must be: Increased DVC sales, more hotel occupancy, increased AP Tix sales. To that end, it will be made available to those staying on property or buying an AP!

While I could be totally wrong - I know them well enough to say that they do not invest Green Money without a Green return!
This is some great speculating on this thread. Any new opinions based new information?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #58
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Some ways in which it will impact the bottom line are obvious. When they go paperless (or close to it), they eliminate most paper ticket costs including printing, waste disposal, maintenance on the machines, etc.
I work entry turnstiles and was told this Fall by one of my managers the ADDITIONAL cost to produce the RFID ticketing. Was really surprised at the amount. Actually, the new "touch pad" entries are probably going to have to have additional CM's due to the difficulty of "stopping" (no gating) guests when their tickets are not working correctly.

Just my $.02. Will be interesting to see how it all works when it reaches full implementation next year.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:57 PM   #59
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I work entry turnstiles and was told this Fall by one of my managers the ADDITIONAL cost to produce the RFID ticketing. Was really surprised at the amount. Actually, the new "touch pad" entries are probably going to have to have additional CM's due to the difficulty of "stopping" (no gating) guests when their tickets are not working correctly.

Just my $.02. Will be interesting to see how it all works when it reaches full implementation next year.
Next year? 2014? Or later in 2013?

Well they can move all people working the fastpass dispersement machines to the front gate when that all goes virtual.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:33 PM   #60
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Next year? 2014? Or later in 2013?

Well they can move all people working the fastpass dispersement machines to the front gate when that all goes virtual.
A lot of this will still be going on through early 2014. Actually, there will still be FP stations throughout the park even when this is fully implemented. At least that is what we are being told.
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