DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 12-28-2012, 10:53 AM   #16
bighoo93
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
The reality is if you bought resale, you cut Disney out of a sale. The company and their employees were negatively affected because you didn't buy direct. How would you feel if you lost your job because of resale? Sales people either preform or they are fired.
That's not reality at all. Disney was not "cut out" of a sale any more than they were cut out of the sale when I bought a gallon of milk at the grocery store this morning. The product I bought wasn't Disney's to sell, just like someone else's DVC points. Disney sells a comparable product to resale DVC points, but they choose to charge double the price. It is a good decision, too, because they have little difficulty selling almost all of their points at that price. But they were not "cut out" of any sale.

Nor is it reasonable to say that people who buy resale are doing any harm to Disney/DVC/DVD. Every day there are billions of people who do not buy from DVD/Disney. And from the countless other businesses on the planet. They aren't "negatively affecting" those companies that they don't do business with, even if they purchase products from competitors, unless you use a bizarre frame of reference where the world revolves around that business and every dollar and sale rightly belongs to it. Consumers go where the economic value is. DVD chooses to charge double the price for essentially the same product. Anyone who gets fired on account of people buying resale (and I have no reason to believe this has happened) should look to DVD management and their pricing decisions, not to the people who evaluated the alternatives in the marketplace and chose the one that made the most economic sense. I would not have bought DVC points directly from Disney because it did not make economic sense (even if there were no resale). I simply would not have bought into DVC at all. So buying resale did nothing to harm Disney/DVD, and that is the case for many who choose to purchase in that market.

Of course salespeople in every industry and company want to make a sale. But it is really not accurate to place the blame on the consumer for making an informed choice.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bighoo93 View Post
I would not have bought DVC points directly from Disney because it did not make economic sense (even if there were no resale). I simply would not have bought into DVC at all. So buying resale did nothing to harm Disney/DVD, and that is the case for many who choose to purchase in that market.
That's the category I fall into as well. Without resale pricing I would not have bought DVC.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bighoo93 View Post
That's not reality at all. Disney was not "cut out" of a sale any more than they were cut out of the sale when I bought a gallon of milk at the grocery store this morning. The product I bought wasn't Disney's to sell, just like someone else's DVC points. Disney sells a comparable product to resale DVC points, but they choose to charge double the price. It is a good decision, too, because they have little difficulty selling almost all of their points at that price. But they were not "cut out" of any sale.

Nor is it reasonable to say that people who buy resale are doing any harm to Disney/DVC/DVD. Every day there are billions of people who do not buy from DVD/Disney. And from the countless other businesses on the planet. They aren't "negatively affecting" those companies that they don't do business with, even if they purchase products from competitors, unless you use a bizarre frame of reference where the world revolves around that business and every dollar and sale rightly belongs to it. Consumers go where the economic value is. DVD chooses to charge double the price for essentially the same product. Anyone who gets fired on account of people buying resale (and I have no reason to believe this has happened) should look to DVD management and their pricing decisions, not to the people who evaluated the alternatives in the marketplace and chose the one that made the most economic sense. I would not have bought DVC points directly from Disney because it did not make economic sense (even if there were no resale). I simply would not have bought into DVC at all. So buying resale did nothing to harm Disney/DVD, and that is the case for many who choose to purchase in that market.

Of course salespeople in every industry and company want to make a sale. But it is really not accurate to place the blame on the consumer for making an informed choice.
I'm not blaming anyone, I am just stating the facts. Buyers have a choice, resale or direct. If they buy resale they aren't buying direct and Disney has lost a sale. You can change "cut out" to "lost" if you want but the result is the same.

Why do you think that they placed the resale restrictions, to make resale sales less attractive and to boost direct sales. As a Guide, if you aren't making your required sales, you first lose money and if you do not improve, you are fired for under performing.

Bill
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by disneynutz

Why do you think that they placed the resale restrictions, to make resale sales less attractive and to boost direct sales. As a Guide, if you aren't making your required sales, you first lose money and if you do not improve, you are fired for under preforming.

Bill
We truly do not know why DVC placed resale restrictions; unless I have missed something everything posted here has been conjecture as to their motives. It was also suggested that they restricted resale trade-outs because the were unable to get the cash they wanted for the excess rooms they now had available for cash bookings. This makes sense to me as I saw numerous flyers in the rooms offering dining / park ticket / lodging packages at discounted prices for OKW and SSR.

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Old 12-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #20
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I am a resale owner.

I do not know who my guide is and have never heard from him/her.

I have not felt mistreated in any way by MS or CM's. I guess my maintenance fees assure that. We even toured the models at SSR, told the guide we had already bought resale, and had a great tour.

I can understand a salesperson not being interested in helping someone who knows about the resale market. But I am not interested that much (from a business perspective) in them either. However, I do expect a civil and cordial interaction.

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Old 12-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #21
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I'm not blaming anyone, I am just stating the facts. Buyers have a choice, resale or direct. If they buy resale they aren't buying direct and Disney has lost a sale. You can change "cut out" to "lost" if you want but the result is the same.

Why do you think that they placed the resale restrictions, to make resale sales less attractive and to boost direct sales. As a Guide, if you aren't making your required sales, you first lose money and if you do not improve, you are fired for under preforming.

Bill
These two things are seperate, and have nothing to do with direct sales.
The first is like comparing new home sales to mls listing sales. If someone buys an older home instead of the new home then the builder is cut out. But in reality the builder might not have even been in the picture if the buyers couldnt afford the new homes, but could only afford a fixer upper.
After buying the fixer upper, the home owner still has the same costs as someone who buys from a builder. Mortgage, insurance, heat, hydro ect/. Just like the MF at dvc. I for one would not have bought into dvc if not for finding resale. And it was shown to me by a rep who understood our situation. Not wanting the large upfront, but could handle the yearly fee since i did not want to finance the purchase.

The second point is two fold, I belive the restrictions are there to give insentive to by direct. As far as making sales targets, and being let go for not making them, thats in all sales jobs, working against much more comp then resale dvc. Dont forget about all the other thousand of timeshares close to Disney and that comp. All timeshare sales no matter who they are, are looking for the fish that dont know about the other waters to swim in. It is their job to net you with the bait, and reel you in.
I have close friends that have had their membership for 7 years and untill I told them I bought resale, they had no idea. And they have added on 4 times.Are they upset about not knowing about resale, no because they have been looked after. Will they continue to by direct, their not sure now, but thats not to say no, but they have the choice now and its their reps responsiblity to keep them happy to continue to buy direct.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
I'm not blaming anyone, I am just stating the facts. Buyers have a choice, resale or direct. If they buy resale they aren't buying direct and Disney has lost a sale. You can change "cut out" to "lost" if you want but the result is the same.
There might be a problem for the salesperson, but hardly to Disney. They get the resale-buyer's money in admission, food, souvenirs... They get the dues. And more dues. And even more dues.

The salesperson can either look at a resale buyer as someone who took food off their table, can berate them, spend time lying to them, and cut those resale buyers out of his life entirely....OR s/he can see those people as FUTURE buyers from him/her. OR s/he can spend as little time as is possible with the resale buyers, and spend his/her time with people that s/he might sell to right then. No one is wasting the salesperson's time but the salesperson him/herself, when they take the time to say nonsense to someone who didn't buy from him/her...yet.

While we never did buy resale, we considered it and told our guide. He didn't get on our case at all, and simply told us that he looked forward to our purchase in the future. Year and a half later, he was getting our purchase! If he had done a hardsell, we would not have bought from him.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:19 PM   #23
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There might be a problem for the salesperson, but hardly to Disney. They get the resale-buyer's money in admission, food, souvenirs... They get the dues. And more dues. And even more dues.

The salesperson can either look at a resale buyer as someone who took food off their table, can berate them, spend time lying to them, and cut those resale buyers out of his life entirely....OR s/he can see those people as FUTURE buyers from him/her. OR s/he can spend as little time as is possible with the resale buyers, and spend his/her time with people that s/he might sell to right then. No one is wasting the salesperson's time but the salesperson him/herself, when they take the time to say nonsense to someone who didn't buy from him/her...yet.

While we never did buy resale, we considered it and told our guide. He didn't get on our case at all, and simply told us that he looked forward to our purchase in the future. Year and a half later, he was getting our purchase! If he had done a hardsell, we would not have bought from him.
Not really. With limited exceptions, the rooms will get used and someone will pay dues, admissions, dining, etc. While there will be a small subset that wouldn't buy if it weren't for the cheaper resale, it's essentially an irrelevant group. A significant group would buy retail if resale weren't a viable option.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:14 AM   #24
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Not really. With limited exceptions, the rooms will get used and someone will pay dues, admissions, dining, etc. While there will be a small subset that wouldn't buy if it weren't for the cheaper resale, it's essentially an irrelevant group. A significant group would buy retail if resale weren't a viable option.
The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:36 AM   #25
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The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.
Disney sells millions of points at a new resort, at AKV so far they have sold 7.5 million, no real comparison to resale. If resale were considered a more relevant group, there would be 50 resale brokers fighting for the DVC resale business instead of 4.

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:49 AM   #26
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Disney sells millions of points at a new resort, at AKV so far they have sold 7.5 million, no real comparison to resale. If resale were considered a more relevant group, there would be 50 resale brokers fighting for the DVC resale business instead of 4.
This is an entirely different issue.

But for the record, I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no difficulty selling their points at double the cost of the resale market, indicating that they have no need to add punitive restrictions.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:59 AM   #27
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That's not reality at all. Disney was not "cut out" of a sale any more than they were cut out of the sale when I bought a gallon of milk at the grocery store this morning. The product I bought wasn't Disney's to sell, just like someone else's DVC points. Disney sells a comparable product to resale DVC points, but they choose to charge double the price. It is a good decision, too, because they have little difficulty selling almost all of their points at that price. But they were not "cut out" of any sale.

Nor is it reasonable to say that people who buy resale are doing any harm to Disney/DVC/DVD. Every day there are billions of people who do not buy from DVD/Disney. And from the countless other businesses on the planet. They aren't "negatively affecting" those companies that they don't do business with, even if they purchase products from competitors, unless you use a bizarre frame of reference where the world revolves around that business and every dollar and sale rightly belongs to it. Consumers go where the economic value is. DVD chooses to charge double the price for essentially the same product. Anyone who gets fired on account of people buying resale (and I have no reason to believe this has happened) should look to DVD management and their pricing decisions, not to the people who evaluated the alternatives in the marketplace and chose the one that made the most economic sense. I would not have bought DVC points directly from Disney because it did not make economic sense (even if there were no resale). I simply would not have bought into DVC at all. So buying resale did nothing to harm Disney/DVD, and that is the case for many who choose to purchase in that market.

Of course salespeople in every industry and company want to make a sale. But it is really not accurate to place the blame on the consumer for making an informed choice.
It is reality when you take it to a personal level.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #28
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The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.
from DVD's standpoint they are irrelevant other than if DVd can somehow get them to buy and i think you over estimate the size of the group that would not buy if resale were not an option.

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This is an entirely different issue.

But for the record, I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no difficulty selling their points at double the cost of the resale market, indicating that they have no need to add punitive restrictions.
disney will have to decide what they 'have' to do. Regardless of how well they do, a lost sale is a lost sale and lost profit. however I think disney has had issues with the economy as well as at certain resort historically (VB/HH).
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #29
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from DVD's standpoint they are irrelevant other than if DVd can somehow get them to buy and i think you over estimate the size of the group that would not buy if resale were not an option.

disney will have to decide what they 'have' to do. Regardless of how well they do, a lost sale is a lost sale and lost profit. however I think disney has had issues with the economy as well as at certain resort historically (VB/HH).
I am one in that irrelevant group. We loved DVC but did not feel it was worth 35k for the size contract we wanted. So I bought it resale for half. Disney did not lose my sale because I would never buy direct at those prices.

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Old 12-29-2012, 12:47 PM   #30
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I am one in that irrelevant group. We loved DVC but did not feel it was worth 35k for the size contract we wanted. So I bought it resale for half. Disney did not lose my sale because I would never buy direct at those prices.

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And in some respects, Disney has gained you as a repeat customer ( park tickets, dining, merchandise...).

I bought resale as well and knew that Disney would still be receiving some of my future dollars (on the items stated above) on a long term basis.

Disney would prefer the whole dollar (direct sale), but they will never refuse a smaller cut of the $$.

Stephen
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