Prices for resales

[connorlevismom]

Originally Posted by SpectroMan71

Ugh - I'm in the same boat here. I see the postings showing the average sales price (usually mid 50's) and then look at the available listings and they're $61-70, or higher. I realize it's normal to offer a few dollars per point less but a full 10 dollars? It seems like a major lowball.

I realize many sellers are distressed and need higher amounts to get out of their contracts but for the ones that are paid off, I'm having a really hard time connecting the sold prices I see posted on here with the current asking prices.

And the brokers can't do much to give anyone preferential treatment like a realtor can. I never get emails or calls like "I have this great VWL coming up and you need to bid on it!" and such. It's getting disconcerting.

Exactly - this is how I feel. It makes me wonder if buying resale is worth it. I know it is, but it just seems like such a long frustrating process.

[amypetecar]

Originally Posted by DannysMom

From reading these boards it appears that Fidelity is more willing to present lowball offers. It also looks like they may advise listing prices to have room for negotiation, but I have never listed a contract, so cannot confirm or deny that, it is speculation on my part. I worked with Rachel at Fidelity on my resale purchase this past summer & she was very easy to work with IMO. Both Sharon & Rachel at Fidelity get good reports on this board.

It looks like TTS sellers tend to be more firm in their pricing, but often have a more reasonable listing price. Some sellers, no matter the listing agent think that their "need" to get X dollars for their contract, because they have a loan, makes their contract worth an unreasonable listing price. It doesn't. These seller's might become more negotiable as time wears on & they get no offers anywhere close to the listing price. So if you are looking for a DVC deal, don't be afraid to present offers for what you want to pay, and expect lots of rejections before you find a seller that is willing to accept your price.

Also keep tabs on the ROFR thread to have a decent idea on fair market value of the type of contract you are looking for, as well knowledge of what is getting past ROFR (or not.)

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Another vote for rachel! She was great to work with!

[kristenrice]

Originally Posted by DebbieB

Small contracts are typically higher per point. I was shocked that a friend of mine got over $90 per point on a 50 point HH contract 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't know how long the pricing has been in effect, but we bought 50 pts at HHI direct for $80/pt. We finalized the purchase in January 2011 but we were in contact with our guide in October/November 2010. There are still some resale listings that I've seen that are actually HIGHER than what Disney is selling direct.

It just goes to show that there are a lot of uneducated buyers out there, even for resale. That's a big reason why Disney can keep raising their direct prices. There is still a lot of buyers who just don't take the time to do the research and Disney knows it and uses it to their advantage. I don't see any reason why a person selling resale (who isn't desperate to sell) wouldn't adopt the same tactic. Throw a price tag on it and see if there are any takers.

[staceymay00]

Originally Posted by connorlevismom

Exactly - this is how I feel. It makes me wonder if buying resale is worth it. I know it is, but it just seems like such a long frustrating process.

I think that is more often the case when people are trying to score a really great deal. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but as several posters have said, it can take more time and effort to get an amazing deal. Almost three years ago I found a contract that was just what we were looking for. I made an offer, offer was quickly accepted, and everything through closing went very smoothly. I actually offered asking price on our contract because it was a fair price - not an amazing deal, but fair and in line with what other contracts were selling for at that time. The seller did agree to split closing costs and MFs with us, which saved us some money.

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[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

Originally Posted by staceymay00

I think that is more often the case when people are trying to score a really great deal. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but as several posters have said, it can take more time and effort to get an amazing deal. Almost three years ago I found a contract that was just what we were looking for. I made an offer, offer was quickly accepted, and everything through closing went very smoothly. I actually offered asking price on our contract because it was a fair price - not an amazing deal, but fair and in line with what other contracts were selling for at that time. The seller did agree to split closing costs and MFs with us, which saved us some money.

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I agree with this. We bought at just about the asking price because it was fair (not great) and got ball rolling without having to make offer after offer. Might have spent 300-500 more but got it done and done quickly. I wanted to be an owner and still got a much better deal than going direct to the mouse !

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by SpectroMan71

Ugh - I'm in the same boat here. I see the postings showing the average sales price (usually mid 50's) and then look at the available listings and they're $61-70, or higher. I realize it's normal to offer a few dollars per point less but a full 10 dollars? It seems like a major lowball.

I realize many sellers are distressed and need higher amounts to get out of their contracts but for the ones that are paid off, I'm having a really hard time connecting the sold prices I see posted on here with the current asking prices.

And the brokers can't do much to give anyone preferential treatment like a realtor can. I never get emails or calls like "I have this great VWL coming up and you need to bid on it!" and such. It's getting disconcerting.

Offering $20+ per point below asking is real low balling, offering $10 below asking is pretty normal.

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by connorlevismom

Exactly - this is how I feel. It makes me wonder if buying resale is worth it. I know it is, but it just seems like such a long frustrating process.

If you want to get a real low price like some of the people here, then be prepared to take a lot of time and effort. If saving over direct with minimal effort is what you want then make offers within a couple of dollars of asking price.

SSR direct $100+/point
SSR resale easy $70/point
SSR resale lots of effort $50-$55/point

Your savings are going to be proportional to the amount of time and effort you put into it.

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by staceymay00

I think that is more often the case when people are trying to score a really great deal. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but as several posters have said, it can take more time and effort to get an amazing deal. Almost three years ago I found a contract that was just what we were looking for. I made an offer, offer was quickly accepted, and everything through closing went very smoothly. I actually offered asking price on our contract because it was a fair price - not an amazing deal, but fair and in line with what other contracts were selling for at that time. The seller did agree to split closing costs and MFs with us, which saved us some money.

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First time I bought I offered extremely close to asking and the offer was accepted right away. I wasn't trying to get a real great deal, just an average deal. Adding on though I wanted a really good deal and was willing to spend lots of time hunting for it.

Best deal I ever had was SSR at $50/point, I paid closing, but no MF and it had 3 years of points. Pure luck I got that contract as another person, not a broker sent me the listing. So being lucky helps

[Jasonkat]

I'm not an expert in negotiation, but one thing I try to remember is the BUYER sets the price, not the seller. The other thing to remember is most "final prices" are the mid point between the seller's list and the buyer's first offer. So if a seller wants $70 and you offer $60 they will be convinced that accepting anything less than $65 means you're taking advantage of them. So it is in your best interest to bid well below fair value to avoid this problem.

The seller's list price is merely their first offer and is no way related to "fair value". Using, for example, the listing I'm bidding on now it's a 300 VWL for $66. The $66 is the seller's "offer" to potential buyers. I believe "fair" price is $58, so in my opinion this seller's offer is $8 over fair price.

So, given that, why is it a crime for me to do the same thing as them and offer $8 under "fair" price? Wouldn't I be just as out of line as they are?

So I offered $53 ($5 under "fair price") and hope to negotiate up to fair price. If I had offered $58 I'm pretty sure the seller would not accept anything below $62 (the mid-point of 66-58).

It is not in the buyer's best interest to make your first offer at "fair price" unless you tell the company it's a take-it-or-leave-it offer.


I live in NYC so I don't have a car so I can't compare this to car negotiation, but when I bought my condo I did research to find fair value ($500 a square foot) and then I saw some condos at $550/ foot that I liked so I offered $500. I kept getting denied but eventually I saw a nice condo for $450/foot so I offered $500/foot and got it. This was in 2010 (bad market) and still there were 10 bids over the first 3 days for this condo simply because it was 10% under-priced. I won the bidding because I offered fair value. Other people lost the bidding because they were trying to get a screaming deal. Regardless if list price was $550/foot or $450/foot I was offering $500/foot because that was fair value. The seller's price is irrelevant to what the market price really is.

The point is that in all negotiations you have to decide what your goal is: to pay more than fair value because the seller wants you to do that and you can buy quickly, to wait and wait until you can luck into a screaming deal, or find a good product and offer a fair price. Eventually your fair price will get accepted simply because it is a fair price.

[connorlevismom]

Are we allowed here to ask for help when it comes to deciding what to offer? I have a couple of contracts I am interested in but would love some advice on what to offer. There is a lot of good information on this thread alone so I am sure I could come up with something on my own. It is just always nice to have a second opinion.

[DannysMom]

I think you can ask, but remember that free advice on the Internet is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. ;-)

The best information I found when trying to determine fair market price for the type of contract I was interested in was in this forum on the ROFR thread. Knowing what other people were paying, and when helps immensely.

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[connorlevismom]

Sounds good.

I was informed my Sharon at Fidelity that maintenance fees are not negotiable at all. That I am expected to pay those if I make an offer. That does not seem right, but I will just offer whatever dollar amount less per point to make up for that.

[DannysMom]

Of course they are!

I can see that any deals made at this point in the year, with 2013 dues coming due soon, most sellers will expect buyers to cover 2013 dues. But I (personally) would not be reimbursing any 2012 dues if I were looking to make a deal now. Absolutely make your offers accordingly.

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[GOOFY D]

Originally Posted by connorlevismom

Sounds good.

I was informed my Sharon at Fidelity that maintenance fees are not negotiable at all. That I am expected to pay those if I make an offer. That does not seem right, but I will just offer whatever dollar amount less per point to make up for that.

Everything is negotiable. The amount of the MFs are determined by Disney, but anything is negotiable between the two parties as long as Disney gets their fees.

[connorlevismom]

Originally Posted by GOOFY D

Everything is negotiable. The amount of the MFs are determined by Disney, but anything is negotiable between the two parties as long as Disney gets their fees.

I tried to put in my offer that us and the seller will split 2013 fees since there are not banked points and the UY is Sept so no points coming until then. She would not let me. She told me I was expected to pay those. I think she is right - I just did not know I could not put that in my offer.