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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 PM   #16
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John just saw on another thread that you did over 82 miles in one week. Wow! That is incredible! Are you running or walking? I have incorporated your advice on how to move your arms correctly. I finally got down to 16.30 minute mile for 3 miles. Thanks for the advice
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:13 AM   #17
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John just saw on another thread that you did over 82 miles in one week. Wow! That is incredible! Are you running or walking? I have incorporated your advice on how to move your arms correctly. I finally got down to 16.30 minute mile for 3 miles. Thanks for the advice
Great job with your improved time!

Thanks for the smile you just put on my face but the 82 miles was bicycling miles not walking miles. I would LOVE to be able to pound the pavement for that many miles but not for this senior citizen and my sometimes non cooperative knees.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:17 AM   #18
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John, I saw your McDonald's when I was running the Wine & Dine on Saturday. Kudos to you for willingly going down and then back up that ramp again!

Can you please talk a bit about cadence and ways to increase your turnover?

I'm at the point where I am great on my endurance but my speed is lacking. I would like to do what I can to help increase that speed during the walking parts of my intervals before the Donald.

Thanks for all of your helpful information!
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #19
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John, I saw your McDonald's when I was running the Wine & Dine on Saturday. Kudos to you for willingly going down and then back up that ramp again!

Can you please talk a bit about cadence and ways to increase your turnover?

I'm at the point where I am great on my endurance but my speed is lacking. I would like to do what I can to help increase that speed during the walking parts of my intervals before the Donald.

Thanks for all of your helpful information!
Going down the ramp was easy since good old gravity helped but that back up was not something I expected. STEEP and cambered made even harder with the McFlurry in hand. I made sure I found the best section of the road, inside edge, to reduce knee pressure and will be better prepared for the Mickey in January.

I am fortunate in that many streets I walk have surveying marks at 50' increments. I used these markings for cadence improvement.

If you can, measure off a few 50' sections on a straight road that you use for training. Approach the starting mark and count the number of steps for each 50' section. Doing this a few times at your normal pace should result in a fairly constant number of steps/50' section. You can also time the 50' sections as you walk or time the sections separately after obtaining your step count.

Now you want to shorten your stride to increase the total number of steps in each 50' section but maintain the same length of time for each 50' section. This will force your muscles to react faster but since the stride is shorter you're not over-extending any muscle that could lead to an injury. After that feels comfortable you then need to reduce the time-frame for each 50' section. Combining the two will lead to a faster cadence that can then be ramped up to points of discomfort resulting in much faster pacing with lower impact on muscles and bones.

Using your arm swing and breathing in co-ordination with steps will also quicken cadence. I move to my own internal beat/rhythm but many others use music to assist in their endeavour for speed. What ever floats your boat to get you faster.

GOOD LUCK.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:02 AM   #20
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John- do you do the cadence? 90 beats per min like in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgueZ...eature=related

I tried the lean and arm swing on my run yesterday. I am running 3 min, walking 1 and my walks tend to be REALLY slow. My runs not all that great either- LOL But the walks were pretty sad.

So I ran/walked my first mile as I normally do. Then the 2nd mile I decided to try the lean and arm swing. I only did this when I was walking, didn't even think to try to put that position into my run portion. Duh.

Anyway--- I kept watching my garmin amazed at the speed it was giving me on the walks! Instead of dropping from a 11:30 min/mile pace for my run to a 16 min mile pace for the walk like I did in the first mile, I only dropped to a 13:30 min mile pace when I switched to the walk.

And it felt good! I didn't feel like I was still running- I was certainly getting a "break" somehow. But the pace was comfortable and clearly a lot quicker than my previous walk pace.

I finished my run 2+ min/mile faster than the first mile and felt a lot better while doing the run.

Of course, this was one run one day. But I think this is really going to help me out! Thanks again for taking the time to share this.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorns2 View Post
John- do you do the cadence? 90 beats per min like in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgueZ...eature=related

I tried the lean and arm swing on my run yesterday. I am running 3 min, walking 1 and my walks tend to be REALLY slow. My runs not all that great either- LOL But the walks were pretty sad.

So I ran/walked my first mile as I normally do. Then the 2nd mile I decided to try the lean and arm swing. I only did this when I was walking, didn't even think to try to put that position into my run portion. Duh.

Anyway--- I kept watching my garmin amazed at the speed it was giving me on the walks! Instead of dropping from a 11:30 min/mile pace for my run to a 16 min mile pace for the walk like I did in the first mile, I only dropped to a 13:30 min mile pace when I switched to the walk.

And it felt good! I didn't feel like I was still running- I was certainly getting a "break" somehow. But the pace was comfortable and clearly a lot quicker than my previous walk pace.

I finished my run 2+ min/mile faster than the first mile and felt a lot better while doing the run.

Of course, this was one run one day. But I think this is really going to help me out! Thanks again for taking the time to share this.
Hadn't seen that video and it is excellent.

Danny referred to stride cadence where-as many others refer to step cadence. 90 stride cadence is of course 180 step. Supposedly the ideal cadence when in reality it is not always achievable.

In answer to your cadence question, yes, I maintain MY OWN ideal cadence but it is not 90 stride/180 step. I match my arm swing/breathing to foot strike and work from there. When approaching runners who are in my way I will lean more and up cadence to over 100 stride/200 step so as to pass as quickly as possible. These bursts of speed can put me in a 7:00mpm pace zone or faster for the distance needed to comfortably pass them and slow back down without fear of the runner catching up and me then interfering with them.

I still have knee issues with increasing my stride length and maintaining the same cadence but I am working on that.

That different feeling is the subtle change in muscle exertion that takes place when shifting from running to walking. The first set of muscles are slightly relaxed while a new set is brought into action and then back to the original muscles. This ever so slightly relaxation is multiplied many times over and the result is quicker times with less physical degradation.

Sounds like you are getting into the GROOVE that will allow you to make fantastic speed gains WITHOUT the high risk of injury that strictly running so often brings.

Good for you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:53 PM   #22
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Hi guys, thought I'd check in and say hello. I've been rehading an injured achillies and most of my training has been in a pool with lots of pool walking and strengthening exercises. I'm back up to 6.5 miles and starting to feel like I may beat this. Still have a ways to go though. I'm still planning on the marathon in a little less than 2 months.

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Old 11-19-2012, 05:21 AM   #23
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Hi guys, thought I'd check in and say hello. I've been rehading an injured achillies and most of my training has been in a pool with lots of pool walking and strengthening exercises. I'm back up to 6.5 miles and starting to feel like I may beat this. Still have a ways to go though. I'm still planning on the marathon in a little less than 2 months.

Dave
Dave-it's great to read that you are back on the road and regaining your strength. Please be extra careful with your return.

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Old 11-27-2012, 05:45 AM   #24
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John how did you work on speed and endurance? I finally got down to a 15.30 mile for 2 consecutive miles. But then I am slower on mile 3 and 4.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #25
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John how did you work on speed and endurance? I finally got down to a 15.30 mile for 2 consecutive miles. But then I am slower on mile 3 and 4.
Some of my endurance is a by-product of bicycle riding but when it comes to actually completing a half or full marathon, it is the miles of one foot in front of the other. Same with speed. Increasing the distances walked at a faster cadence will make it easier as the miles build.

If you are walking faster for a full 2 miles and then slowing down, you could be over-extending your comfort range at this point. When we were all young, (a kid), we would run fast then get tired so we would walk for a bit to catch our breathe and run again until we got tired then catch our breathe again then repeat the process over and over. Now a days it is called Galloway's run/walk/run Method but back then it was just our kid's brain doing something logical.

Try walking your normal fast pace but at a mile take a short recovery walk break, maybe a minute, then speed up again for a mile and recover a minute then see if you can speed up again and repeat for the next mile or two. Doing this routine as your miles build will bring down overall times while increasing your endurance.

Galloway has his run/walk/run known to many but in my case because of bad knees and not being able to run I walked fast/walked a little slower/walked fast to help improve times.

Try and see if it helps. Good luck.

p.s.-forgot to mention, just did my walk fast/walked a little slower/walked fast for the first half of Sunday's Space Coast Marathon and completed that portion in 2:20:+ then went to a jog/walk fast/jog second half and completed the second half in 2:23:+ for a 4:43:+ for the full marathon. As I mentioned, I still can not run so jogging will have to do for a while but I am slowly working on improving the stability of my knees.

Last edited by John VN; 11-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:26 PM   #26
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p.s.-forgot to mention, just did my walk fast/walked a little slower/walked fast for the first half of Sunday's Space Coast Marathon and completed that portion in 2:20:+ then went to a jog/walk fast/jog second half and completed the second half in 2:23:+ for a 4:43:+ for the full marathon. As I mentioned, I still can not run so jogging will have to do for a while but I am slowly working on improving the stability of my knees.
WTG!!!!

I'm seriously going to concentrate on the walking because my knees- while not bad, YET, are going to get there sooner than I want to stop going to Disney... errr, I mean doing half marathons.

I'm doing ok with my 3:1 using the fast walking plan. Have a 10.5 this weekend and I plan to use this to my best ability!

I can't get the cadence right though. I know I can use a metronome but I listen to music (a must for me- or I don't go) Are there any vibrating options I can clip on? Wondering if that might help me get a better rhythm going.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwalker View Post
Hi guys, thought I'd check in and say hello. I've been rehading an injured achillies and most of my training has been in a pool with lots of pool walking and strengthening exercises. I'm back up to 6.5 miles and starting to feel like I may beat this. Still have a ways to go though. I'm still planning on the marathon in a little less than 2 months.

Dave
Welcome back! Your posts have helped me so much. So sorry you have had an injury, glad you're feeling better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John VN View Post
Some of my endurance is a by-product of bicycle riding but when it comes to actually completing a half or full marathon, it is the miles of one foot in front of the other. Same with speed. Increasing the distances walked at a faster cadence will make it easier as the miles build.

If you are walking faster for a full 2 miles and then slowing down, you could be over-extending your comfort range at this point. When we were all young, (a kid), we would run fast then get tired so we would walk for a bit to catch our breathe and run again until we got tired then catch our breathe again then repeat the process over and over. Now a days it is called Galloway's run/walk/run Method but back then it was just our kid's brain doing something logical.

Try walking your normal fast pace but at a mile take a short recovery walk break, maybe a minute, then speed up again for a mile and recover a minute then see if you can speed up again and repeat for the next mile or two. Doing this routine as your miles build will bring down overall times while increasing your endurance.Galloway has his run/walk/run known to many but in my case because of bad knees and not being able to run I walked fast/walked a little slower/walked fast to help improve times.

Try and see if it helps. Good luck.

p.s.-forgot to mention, just did my walk fast/walked a little slower/walked fast for the first half of Sunday's Space Coast Marathon and completed that portion in 2:20:+ then went to a jog/walk fast/jog second half and completed the second half in 2:23:+ for a 4:43:+ for the full marathon. As I mentioned, I still can not run so jogging will have to do for a while but I am slowly working on improving the stability of my knees.
I've been doing this type of interval walking. I would love to say it cut a lot of my time but perhaps it's my fault for not staying consistent? Now that our weather is more consistently cooler, I hope I can push myself to go faster.

Here's a link to some more speed drills:

http://walking.about.com/cs/powerwal...stworkouts.htm

And, John, :coo l1: about that marathon!!! You are my hero!!!!

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WTG!!!!

I'm seriously going to concentrate on the walking because my knees- while not bad, YET, are going to get there sooner than I want to stop going to Disney... errr, I mean doing half marathons.

I'm doing ok with my 3:1 using the fast walking plan. Have a 10.5 this weekend and I plan to use this to my best ability!

I can't get the cadence right though. I know I can use a metronome but I listen to music (a must for me- or I don't go) Are there any vibrating options I can clip on? Wondering if that might help me get a better rhythm going.
Great question! This has been the reason for my hesitation in buying a metronome.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:08 PM   #28
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Sorry but I haven't got a clue regarding a vibrating device but a little low cost electric shock zapper might help. Just imagine how fast we would go to get the race over with.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:53 PM   #29
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Sorry but I haven't got a clue regarding a vibrating device but a little low cost electric shock zapper might help. Just imagine how fast we would go to get the race over with.

bahahhhaaa! Seriously. Motivation!
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #30
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Having not properly trained for a full marathon, I started this past Sunday's Space Coast Marathon with the 5 hour/11:27mpm pace group. Going out at a comfortable pace is an absolute must when entered in an endurance event.

My walking stride was relaxed yet purposeful. I knew I would have to be conservative in the first half if I was to complete the full without killing myself. After walking a steady pace for the first 3 miles while listening to the constant chatter of a number of "runners" I quickened my stride and slowly pulled away. I remained critically aware of my energy output because I had not raced the northern section of this event. Unlike many racers I attacked the inclines by leaning a bit more forward while shortening and quickening my stride. I did likewise on the declines always keeping in mind that I could blow-up my knees if I lengthened my stride too much. Eventually settling in with a fast walk/slightly slower than the fast walk stride I found a rhythm that brought me to the 13.1 mile distance in a time of 2:21:20. My half PR is 2:11:12 so this time was very acceptable with completing another half yet to go.

As soon as I crossed the mat to start the second half I started a slow jog/fast walking stride making sure to monitor my knees at all times. My Cho-Pat knee braces did a great job on a few occasions where I twisted the legs a bit more than I should have. Eventually the lack of training caught up to me and at mile 24 I was feeling drained but the fact that 26.2 was not too far ahead kept things moving. *Just a note, when I started my jogging sections from the fast walking pace, I leaned forward a bit more thus employing the benefit of gravity from the Chi Walking Method.

This race was the first time I jogged for any length of time/distance and I will mention that the muscles put into use when jogging are feeling far more tired than a previous strictly walking marathon where I finished in 4:56:28.

Fast walking can be a safe, healthy and an emotionally rewarding way to train for and compete in races. I opened this thread with the announcement that I am not an instructor but I do hope you found it to be helpful and I appreciate the input by those who added links.

Keep your training fun, enjoy your races and should you have questions or tips that can help others, by all means just POST IT, because we are all family and it's good to help each other.

Last edited by John VN; 11-28-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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