Just back--Few Thoughts/Observation

[buffettgirl]

First, the whole elevator thing is irrelevant. Elevators are there to be used by whomever is in line. There's nothing shameful or wrong about anyone who wants to take the elevator.


To Kaytieeldr, let me refresh what it is you said:

Originally Posted by intheshadows

Wow, for a board where people often talk about invisible disabilities and how Disney accommodates them it seems like no one considered that perhaps someone needs grab bars, and they just happen to have a stroller.

C'mon guys, you're better than this.

Originally Posted by kaytieeldr

Someone, sure. Every woman with a stroller? I think even the wizard of odds can't calculate the likelihood of that.

Originally Posted by kaytieeldr

Apologies for thinking readers would understand that "every woman with a stroller" meant "every woman with a stroller who uses the handicapped stall in a restroom over any other possible resolution", honey.

So you simply mean that every woman that uses a stroller and the handicap stall can't possible need it? Ok, every person who uses an ECV can't possibly need it either. SURELY your wizard of odds can't calculate the likelihood of that either. I mean, the vast number of people on ECVs who can get off their ecvs for other thinks means that they can't possibly all need the handicap stall. Right?

Again though, the percentage of women with strollers who actually use the handicap stalls are probably fairly small compared to the vast number of strollers that are in disney. So where are all those other people? not using the stalls, which leads me to think that there are a good quantity who actually do need to use the handicap stall - in which case - it's none of your business.

Frankly, it's none of your business anyway - as the stalls are not like a handicap parking space. They're accessible stalls, not reserved. It means that this stall will accommodate all different people with all different needs.

[KartersMimi]

My daughter is a single mother who often shops & travels alone with her 9 month old son who has Cerebral Palsy. It is not an option to use anything but the larger handicap stall when there is no family restroom available. He must be close to her. Leaving him sitting outside of a stall is simply not an option & I can't imagine any person - handicapped or not - who could think that it should be. Also, we are finding more & more that many stores are installing changing tables inside of the handicap stalls, which only further reinforces the fact that the stall is not for the exclusive use of those in a chair. Now, obviously, if someone is there in a wheelchair & needs access, my daughter will let them go ahead as her son can generally wait a few minutes longer for a diaper change but it is not her problem if someone arrives after she has already entered the stall & she should not have to make apologies for utilizing the facilities that are there. Fact is, there is no designation on these stalls - no sign or placard - nothing that blatantly says "For handicap use only". They are not for the exclusive use of the handicap community. They are simply larger stalls that happen to have handrails & may be used by anyone. I am able to get around just fine. If you saw me walk in to a restroom you would see nothing wrong, except maybe a mild limp. However, when I have to sit down I can very easily lose my balance because of bad hips. I rely on the bars in the larger stalls for stability while both sitting & standing so that I don't end up on the floor in the process. I am also claustrophobic & this tiny stalls can quickly send me into a panic attack. Just because I'm not in a wheelchair does not mean that my need for the larger stall is not as great as those who are visibly handicap.

[kaytieeldr]

Originally Posted by buffettgirl

So you simply mean that every woman that uses a stroller and the handicap stall can't possible need it?

don't be disingenuous.
The likelihood that every single woman with a stroller in a public restroom using the handicapped stall has an invisible disability are so astronomical, the Wizard of Odds would find it difficult, if not impossible, to calculate those odds.

It means that this stall will accommodate all different people with all different needs.

While the stall is usually large enough for a stroller, the international wheelchair symbol means that these stalls will accommodate a person using a mobility assistance device such as a wheelchair (and apparently it's necessary to remind that not everyone in a wheelchair is in it 24/7 either; your derision toward ECV users wasn't missed) or ECV or rollator. Yes, they're large enough for strollers - but there's no stroller symbol. The considerate action would be to leave the accessible stall available whenever possible - but we know there's not a lot of courtesy in 2012.

Frankly, it's none of your business anyway

Sure. But who want to be responsible for TalkingHands' broken bone or embarrassment because someone was toilet-training in the accessible stall? Not mentioned in this thread, but it's been done at WDW...while someone in a wheelchair waited in vain.

[Kellykins1218]

It doesn't matter if they have a physical disability or not. The wheelchair symbol is to show which stall is larger. It is not reserved for wheelchairs. Any mother who has a child in a stroller has an absolute right to use that stall. What exactly do you want them to do with their child while they are in a regular stall? Why do you think so many places have the changing table installed in the HC stall? If mom & her stroller got there first, she has every right to use it. Simple as that.

[kaytieeldr]

Originally Posted by KartersMimi

They are simply larger stalls that happen to have handrails

Well, there's more to it than just being larger and happening to have handrails. There's also the actual floor space required to allow the person in the wheelchair to get between the door and the toilet, and to be able to get the wheelchair into a position where they can transfer. I'm sure there are more requirements as well, and ideally one of our resident architects will be along. But there's nothing coincidental about a handicap bathroom stall.

Originally Posted by Kellykins1218

It doesn't matter if they have a physical disability or not. The wheelchair symbol is to show which stall is larger.

I'm relatively certain that's not why there's a wheelchair symbol on the door/stall. While visually impaired persons might benefit from such solid information, most other people would reasonably use other cues - like looking at the size of the stalls and/or doors.

[Kellykins1218]

Originally Posted by kaytieeldr

I'm relatively certain that's not why there's a wheelchair symbol on the door/stall. .

And I totally disagree with you. I think that's exactly why there's a symbol on them.

[Kellykins1218]

If there is nobody in a wheelchair waiting, my need to use the facilities, and keep my child safe at the same time, trumps anyone in a wheelchair coming in after I enter. If you want stalls that are HC only, call your Congressman because that's not how it is.

[BillSears]

These discussions make me happy to work at a place that has signs like this on the HC stalls.

[jahber]

Originally Posted by BillSears

These discussions make me happy to work at a place that has signs like this on the HC stalls.

Very clear. So I assume the changing table would be somewhere else than this bathroom/stall (if your facilities offer one). Then of course I would give preference to someone who needed the extra space to maneuver, just because I have more flexibility and usually can hold it. But if no one is there and I needed to roll my stroller in (as opposed to leaving my baby unattended in a public space)...um. I'm gonna use the larger stall. Why is that so impossible to understand?

And those who believe HA stalls are ONLY for handicapped people, if the changing table IS in the accessible stall, what then? No one has chimed in on that particular question.

[LoveMMC]

As a teacher of 17 students with a range of special needs I teach social skills. My students are taught turn taking and hidden curriculum bathroom skills- I do not teach students they are in a wheelchair so they deserve to go first in a large stall!!

Just got back from toys r us and the large stall had the change table in it- do both disabled and babies have equal access. I do not expect a mother to pee with their baby outside a stall.

Wheelchairs have a right to use a bathroom comfortably but still have to be patient and use their turn taking skills!

[buffettgirl]

Originally Posted by kaytieeldr

don't be disingenuous.
The likelihood that every single woman with a stroller in a public restroom using the handicapped stall has an invisible disability are so astronomical, the Wizard of Odds would find it difficult, if not impossible, to calculate those odds.

Again, not every single woman with a stroller in a public restroom is using the accessible stall. And given the vast scope of people with disabilities which you cannot see, and compared that to all the women with strollers in the park, there is a very strong likelihood that they do need the accessible rest room. That's not being disingenuous. You are. You keep spouting this thing about every single woman with a stroller in a public restroom, and that's simply not the case.

While the stall is usually large enough for a stroller, the international wheelchair symbol means that these stalls will accommodate a person using a mobility assistance device such as a wheelchair (and apparently it's necessary to remind that not everyone in a wheelchair is in it 24/7 either; your derision toward ECV users wasn't missed) or ECV or rollator. Yes, they're large enough for strollers - but there's no stroller symbol. The considerate action would be to leave the accessible stall available whenever possible - but we know there's not a lot of courtesy in 2012.

There was no derision meant. It was sarcasm to make a point. But it's telling that you interpreted it that way since your dislike of women with strollers is actually fairly strong. You're assuming that every person who uses that stall is doing so for inappropriate reasons.

Sure. But who want to be responsible for TalkingHands' broken bone or embarrassment because someone was toilet-training in the accessible stall? Not mentioned in this thread, but it's been done at WDW...while someone in a wheelchair waited in vain.

And again, who are you to say that the people using the stall don't have a very good and clear need to use it? Why are their needs any greater than someone else?

You have NO IDEA why someone needs that stall. NONE. Unless you have some magic bowel mirror that lets you seen into the internal workings of everyone who walks into the bathroom, that is.

[jujube]

Originally Posted by kellyw8863

I hate threads like this because it makes people who have disabilities (or who travel with individuals with disabilities) seem discompassionate and entitled. As a parent whose child's disability has progressed to her requiring a wheelchair at times, I can assure (general) you that I would never judge a parent with a stroller who uses the HA stall if she is in line ahead of me. What is she supposed to do? Leave the baby in the stroller outside the stall? Rest the baby on the bathroom floor until she's finished doing her business? Neither is an option. Do I get a bit frustrated when I see a single, apparently able-bodied individual bounce into the HA stall when I'm standing there with my child in a wheelchair? Sure I do. But then I remind myself that as a parent of a child with an invisible illness, this person may also have health issues that aren't readily apparent. Maybe she has a history of UTIs with kidney involvement and can't wait for a regular stall to open up. Or maybe she has some type of bowel disease and the need to evacuate has the potential to become emergent.

Same thing with the elevator. A line is a line, and if I'm fifth in line, I'm fifth in line. It doesn't matter who is in front of me.

Yes, it does make some sound entitled.
I'm pretty sure that if someone in line says their child or even if they are having an emergency, most people would allow them to go ahead. I have and I've also seen others tell others it's ok for them to go ahead. That said, if someone gets in line and acts entitled, they can wait.

[ilovemk76]

Originally Posted by EastYorkDisneyFan

I wasn't suggesting that any one use the escalator with the stroller. What I mental was one of the two people that got on with the there strollers in each party could have gotten off to make room for the person in the wheelchair.

Sent from my Samsung Galexy Ace using the DISBoards app

The people who arrived later should have waited. If there was not room for a wheelchair with the first four people, then the wheelchair waits. The others should have waited too.

How slow are the elevators? In a few minutes the wheelchair would be getting on the elevator.

[Sparkly]

Oh boy, a bathroom thread again. Only on the DISboards would so many people argue about such a trivial thing.

[jujube]

Originally Posted by Sparkly

Oh boy, a bathroom thread again. Only on the DISboards would so many people argue about such a trivial thing.

Yep and everyone can get as upset as they'd like. The rule is handicap access not handicap only.