Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > Disney Rumors and News
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #31
lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
 
lockedoutlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Joisey
Posts: 3,416

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllinoisJones View Post
Sorry Locked, but I disagree. I don't go to those places simply cause they're there. I go cause I love them. If DHS was built the way DCA was first built, without a Disney thumb print, I would've stayed away too. But they weren't.
And that's the truth for you....

but i personally feel that MGM has always lacked a coherent concept - especially after the "functioning" portion was completely abandoned almost 15 years ago...and animal kingdom is simply incomplete.

Those are both disney failures...my opinion.

DHS gets alot of love/credit...moreso than it deserves in my opinon...but it is a fairly weak park on many levels.
__________________
Went there.....
Worked there....(Resort Operations)
Wed there....(EPCOT 2004)
Bought there....(SSR 2006)

Last Trip: Too Long Ago
Next Trip: Can i borrow some money to go?
Gift Shop Quality: When did we get to WalMart?
Food Quality: Only the finest free range roast chicken breast and loch dart salmon in the Kingdom


"May the Space Being bless the Free Market"
lockedoutlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 03:03 PM   #32
ChipnDale79
Mouseketeer
 
ChipnDale79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 307

Quote:
It's beyond comprehension that people walk in to both those parks at close to $100 in the morning...mull around...and leave in the early afternoon not to come back...and are completely ok with it. It's like zombies with credit cards.

And contrary to what Walt might have said - that is the real meaning of "Blessing of size"
I dont know if I really agree with that, when we go to WDW we typically go for a total of 7 days, so we buy 7 day park hoppers. As you know, the more days you buy, the cheaper the tickets are, so for 7 days with park hoppers you are really only paying $50 a day.

We go because we enjoy it, I can justify spending $50 per person to be with the people I love doing what thoroughly enjoy. I agree that DHS and DAK need some serious help, but there's enough to do at both parks to really enjoy them.

I do hope that Carsland is built at DHS, we have 2 sons and for us this would be huge.
ChipnDale79 is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 08-02-2012, 03:08 PM   #33
umichigan10
DIS Veteran
 
umichigan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_poppins View Post
I did not mean to imply there is no hope. But if we all continue to reward WDW with our business, by jumping on free dining, buying pins, buying vynilmation, etc... Why should they build anything? Ultimately everyone will decide what vacation is best for them.

If you want quality and new in Orlando than a day at FLE, SeaWOrld Antarctica, and all the new stuff coming to Universal Orlando is the way to go. The other Disney parks are stale.

More quality can be found at Tokyo Disney, my personal favorite. I would rather save money which I used to spend on domestic Disney and spend it there.

DCA also has a lot of quality right now and DLand looks pretty good!

But if we, collectively, keep spending money on the same old same old and buy pins and stuff. Nothing will be built.

If you visit DCA you will feel optimistic -- not that there is no hope!

Larry
I only said it becauae that's what I take out of your solution; that even if us die hard Disney fans stop going new "sheep" (newbies) will just flock their and take our spot.

I also don't believe DHS has reached the mediocrity of opening day DCA. Is it disorganized? Has trouble with a cohesive theme? In dire need of new rides? Yes to all but Disney is yet to let it sink to the standard of the original DCA. So far.
__________________
1997 Wilderness Lodge
1998,99,2000,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007,2009 Old Key West
2005 Boardwalk Villas
2008 Saratoga Springs
2011 Bay Lake Tower
2012 April-All Star Music w/ band
2012 July- Bay Lake Tower

"Somethings wrong, shut the light, heavy thoughts tonight, and they aren't of Snow White"-an example of Metallica and Disney going hand in hand
umichigan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 03:12 PM   #34
lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
 
lockedoutlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Joisey
Posts: 3,416

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipnDale79 View Post
I dont know if I really agree with that, when we go to WDW we typically go for a total of 7 days, so we buy 7 day park hoppers. As you know, the more days you buy, the cheaper the tickets are, so for 7 days with park hoppers you are really only paying $50 a day.

We go because we enjoy it, I can justify spending $50 per person to be with the people I love doing what thoroughly enjoy. I agree that DHS and DAK need some serious help, but there's enough to do at both parks to really enjoy them.

I do hope that Carsland is built at DHS, we have 2 sons and for us this would be huge.
but if you look at the cost you are paying AS MUCH for the two lesser parks as you are for the two older, more thoughtout, better constructed, maintained and reinvested into parks.

So if you need a frame of reference - you have to look at it on equal terms.
That's my point.

And not so much with MGM - which is a great deal smaller....but in the case of animal kingdom - that has more usuable area available than magic kingdom and epcot - there is little excuse for the lack of committment to it that they've shown.
__________________
Went there.....
Worked there....(Resort Operations)
Wed there....(EPCOT 2004)
Bought there....(SSR 2006)

Last Trip: Too Long Ago
Next Trip: Can i borrow some money to go?
Gift Shop Quality: When did we get to WalMart?
Food Quality: Only the finest free range roast chicken breast and loch dart salmon in the Kingdom


"May the Space Being bless the Free Market"
lockedoutlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 03:23 PM   #35
lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
 
lockedoutlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Joisey
Posts: 3,416

Quote:
Originally Posted by umichigan10 View Post
I only said it becauae that's what I take out of your solution; that even if us die hard Disney fans stop going new "sheep" (newbies) will just flock their and take our spot.

I also don't believe DHS has reached the mediocrity of opening day DCA. Is it disorganized? Has trouble with a cohesive theme? In dire need of new rides? Yes to all but Disney is yet to let it sink to the standard of the original DCA. So far.
agree with paragraph one, agree with paragraph two...

disney is getting too much credit with the rework of california adventure...my opinion.

This is exactly what they want and i feared.

They should get NO CREDIT because the original california adventure was built as a disaster in a string of disasterous parks/ missteps...all of which have been sold at retail price since opening.

"We spent a billion dollars for you"...great - so really you spent two billion on a park that isn't worth that and charge me 100 bucks to see it...and wasted 10 years of yours and everyone else's lives.

kudos
__________________
Went there.....
Worked there....(Resort Operations)
Wed there....(EPCOT 2004)
Bought there....(SSR 2006)

Last Trip: Too Long Ago
Next Trip: Can i borrow some money to go?
Gift Shop Quality: When did we get to WalMart?
Food Quality: Only the finest free range roast chicken breast and loch dart salmon in the Kingdom


"May the Space Being bless the Free Market"
lockedoutlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 05:46 PM   #36
kbelle8995
DIS Veteran
 
kbelle8995's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tallahassee, Fla
Posts: 1,343

Wink

DHS needs something. The Studio Tour has had the guts ripped out of it and there's nothing left. I have no opinion on the Stunt car show since I have no interest in it.

Put something out there that will even out the crowds. TSM is so packed most of the time. I would love to see Cars land here.
kbelle8995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:07 PM   #37
ChrisFL
Disney/Universal Fan and MALE
 
ChrisFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tampa, FL, US
Posts: 7,540

Quote:
Originally Posted by umichigan10 View Post
Ive never been but the pics and video of it are enough for me to tdl specifically Disney sea and the hotel built into it (forgot the name)
The MiraCosta....and you should definitely go. People on the community boards are talking about their bucket lists...if any Disney fan doesn't have this on their bucket list, they need to immediately.
__________________



Disney Parks Visited: MK - EPCOT - DHS - DAK - DL - DCA - HKDL - TDL - TDS
ChrisFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:32 PM   #38
umichigan10
DIS Veteran
 
umichigan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
The MiraCosta....and you should definitely go. People on the community boards are talking about their bucket lists...if any Disney fan doesn't have this on their bucket list, they need to immediately.
That's the one. I saw pics on all ears and I went 'holy s*** who built that place God himself???'
Disney sea itself don't even get me started. It blows any of the parks that are statewide right out of the water.
__________________
1997 Wilderness Lodge
1998,99,2000,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007,2009 Old Key West
2005 Boardwalk Villas
2008 Saratoga Springs
2011 Bay Lake Tower
2012 April-All Star Music w/ band
2012 July- Bay Lake Tower

"Somethings wrong, shut the light, heavy thoughts tonight, and they aren't of Snow White"-an example of Metallica and Disney going hand in hand
umichigan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 01:53 AM   #39
k5jmh

DIS Tech Talk Guru
Ask me about Alpaca poop!
I want to pour that Sauce all over my body
 
k5jmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 5,272

Tommy, that would explain something we saw at WDI this week.
__________________

k5jmh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 08:42 AM   #40
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
I think at this point, the question is, does anyone in TDO, or more importantly, the main offices have some pride in that recently renamed studios park to invest in it, before Universal takes all of the limelight.
No. No they don't. Or, if they do, they're not going to make decisions that will invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a park based on it.

The fact is: Disney will invest in the park ONLY if they think it does something for the bottom line. Not out of pride. Not to spite Universal. Not for the PR of it. The days of Eisner making decisions because he was ticked off, or to settle some grudge, or to "one up" the competition are gone (and, given where that road led us, I'd say it's a good thing). As "fun" as it was for Disney fans (and I count myself as one of them), he did EVERYTHING that way. From the way he ran his office to the way he planned park expansions.

I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm a bit more "concerned" with USF's expansions (specifically it's announced value accomodations and what that will mean for value vacationers) and their effect on WDW. My concern, granted, is based on anecdote and not numbers. IF Disney sees significant slippage in their numbers, they'll invest in refreshing things and new offerings (likely at the expense of shuttering existing offerings...so it's generally a net zero gain) to make their parks more attractive. BUT ONLY if the numbers they see warrants it.

It's fun to theorycraft...and it IS the rumors board....but that doesn't mean we all shouldn't keep in mind WHY Disney does things. It's all about the Benjamins, baby. Always.
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #41
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADP View Post
2. Cars Land is really going to bump up attendance at DCA. If they create another Cars Land in Orlando that could impact the gate at DCA. It won't be exclusive anymore. I would tend to think DHS would get an exclusive land not related at all to Cars Land in order to keep the turnstile at DCA moving more often.
I think that's the biggie, here. They don't want to cannabilize the potential DCA market...especially right now when they're going to be trying to justify that HUGE outlay of cash to fix things. DCA put huge egg on Disney's face. It's their first REAL catastrophe.

They've just dumped billions into the park to remake it. They want the turnstiles turning out there, any way they can get them to, so they can justify that expense. And if you look at the stuff they've added....some of it has already made it's way to WDW (TSM, VOTLM, etc). I think Cars land, for at least the next 8 to 10 years, stays at DCA.

Which isn't to say they won't do SOMETHING Pixar related with the backlot and Stunt show (which is uber expensive to run, with limited attendance). But I doubt it would be an exact replica, or even similar to, Cars land in DCA.
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 08:54 AM   #42
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllinoisJones View Post
[Everyone needs to tell Disney they can keep their free dining. We are not interested.]

Is free dining frowned upon? It saves guests thousands.
There's no such thing (in this case, literally) as a free lunch.

You're still paying for that free dining. You're losing room discounts, you're seeing higher than previously "average" room rate increases year over year, and you're seeing higher ticket price increases year over year. You're seeing "premium" pricing (both for the DDP and for OOP guests) for busier times of year. You're seeing steeper DDP price increases/value reductions year over year.

Guests aren't saving thousands, really. They're just redistributing who's collecting the money, and giving the ILLUSION you're saving thousands. Depending on party size, where you stay, and how you vacation...you may actually be paying more or saving almost nothing....even if you're going during a "free dining" period.

And if you're not (or if you're a DVC member..though most of us can't complain given what our "nightly rates" break down to), you're almost definitely paying a LOT more than you were even 5 years ago. Way more than typical rate of inflation.
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #43
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
I highly reccommend this option. I truly enjoy the magic, spend lots of money and don't feel guilty about it, because of the top quality experience that all of the CM's and management keep up there.
Disneysea is simply amazing. If you can, I would recommend a pilgrimmage for any Disney fan.

I got to go while I was out there on business. Now I've got to find a way to get the rest of the family out there.
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 09:08 AM   #44
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
I wish this were possible...but the client base at DL is far different than WDW...

and by that i mean "smarter and not as lazy"

I hate to say it because i resemble this remark, but the clientele at WDW is even worse at buying junk with a disney lable slapped on it than everywhere else.
Locals vs Tourists.

Tourists will buy crud, simply because they're on vacation.

Locals won't. They've got more of an eye toward value.

That's not opinion, FYI (though it is slighlty over-simplified). There's been some great market research on the subject that's out there in the public domain.

Quote:
East coasters and upper midwesterners (the core wdw clientele) are less discerning consumers - it would appear - than everywhere else in a generally undiscerning country.
I'm not sure it's geography so much as it is situation.

Ex: On vacation, a $6 bottle of water is a "Just grab it honey...we're on vacation" purchase.

In your local store, a $6 bottle of water is a "what the heck are they thinking" item that would largely sit on the shelf (Pellegrino excluded, maybe).

Quote:
And i'm not living in a glass house because i'm one of the two and grew up the other...

but they would have to put a razor wire fence and attack dogs out front to keep people outta mgm...its there...so people will go.

The reality is that both Studios and Animal Kingdom are bad as compared to magic kingdom and epcot...and the fact that they charge equal prices should send everybody over the cliff...

But they get no guff. Smaller attendance for smaller (aka less to do) parks...but no grief on the pricing or lack of vision/ consistent expansion.
Because half day parks fit into their "plan" for their guests. Half day parks means you're either going to Downtown Disney to spend money, you're buying admission to a water park, or you're heading out to a fancy dinner (likely on property). The "we always have to be doing something" mentality of MOST WDW vacationers means Disney can spend less on the 1/2 day parks...and push guests to higher profit areas before/after that visit.

There are people that are going to KILL me, now, because I'm ruining the magic and being mercenary. But, just like your local grocery store is set up for a very specific reason (milk and bread as far from the front doors as possible, high profit (either directly or via "shelf place" kickbacks) items on eye level shelves, etc), Disney does things for specific reasons. We might not know what they are...because we don't have their data...but I promise you there are people in a room discussing the effect of moving DHS from a 1/2 day to full (or 3/4) day park. And they're discussing minutae that most of us wouldn't even consider.

All of which I know (or at least strongly suspect) that you know...but still.

Quote:
It's been that way for decades...and the consumers are to blame. The warm and fuzzies of space mountain or the showcase at EPCOT shield the warts at WDW...

It's beyond comprehension that people walk in to both those parks at close to $100 in the morning...mull around...and leave in the early afternoon not to come back...and are completely ok with it. It's like zombies with credit cards.

And contrary to what Walt might have said - that is the real meaning of "Blessing of size"
I would give my I teeth to get a hold of the data showing how many of AK's and DHS's guests are on one day park tickets (so actually paying full gate price), as opposed to multi-day passes (because when it works out to paying $35-ish per day...the value quotient jumps dramatically). I have a strong suspicion which one is (by far) the most used.
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)

Last edited by pilferk; 08-03-2012 at 09:25 AM.
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 09:13 AM   #45
pilferk
Jambo Wildbunch Gang
I feel like Rita Rodney Dangerfield...
 
pilferk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And that's the truth for you....

but i personally feel that MGM has always lacked a coherent concept - especially after the "functioning" portion was completely abandoned almost 15 years ago...and animal kingdom is simply incomplete.

Those are both disney failures...my opinion.

DHS gets alot of love/credit...moreso than it deserves in my opinon...but it is a fairly weak park on many levels.
Minor failures...or failures in part.

DCA was a complete, abject, failure of catastrophic proportions. Neither AK nor DHS were failures of that magnitude.

DHS was rushed to open, and really wasn't completed for YEARS afterwards. I'm OK with the general thematic thread that weaves it's way through. I agree. There are obvious departures (Aerosmith? I guess music videos, maybe?)...but I'm OK with it.

AK...as we've hashed out in other discussions...I'm right with you. It's simply incomplete...and obviously so. And it's been left that way FAR longer than DHS was. That's a Disney failure..but it also (not coincidentally) coinsides with the WDW suits displying the stunning lack of vision I talked about in a previous post. They simply have no earthly clue what to do with it....
__________________
Disney dreamin'...Somewhere!
11 9 7 (...our little Disney Souvenir)
pilferk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.