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Old 10-14-2008, 10:10 PM   #211
zulemara
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Originally Posted by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH View Post
Well if you read the very first paragraph of the very first announcement of the PI closure as stated in the Orlando Sentinel, I think you're incorrect:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin...,2367595.story

Later in the article Lansberry is quoted, "Truthfully, our guests have really gotten out of that in the last couple of years. They want things that are a lot more geared toward family entertainment."

So those of us who feel Disney has referred to their vision of PI as more "family friendly" do in fact have a basis for that statement. The AC was family friendly even if my beloved Mannequins and 8TRAX were not. The new South American restaurant/night club is not in any way family friendly.

BobK/Orlando
Very well, I stand corrected. Their guest feedback is still extremely skewed based on time of day and location. I'm sure the questions weren't exactly honest either.

To that end, to people who say the clubs were not profitable, Kevin "I'm a newb" lansberry stated the clubs are still profitable in one of the news articles. How profitable, we don't know, but he stated it himself. I used to work at 8-trax, we had a sales goal for alcohol and that club absolutely crushed it every night I worked, which was usually thurs-sunday after working 8 hrs at the golf course I can't speak for the other days, but even if they didn't smash it, I'm sure they weren't terribly under goal.

I did not realize the end of the corporate year is the end of September. On the one hand it makes sense, but on the other hand you're still leaving a LOT of revenue out there for the holiday season. They are cutting everything else in January, why not cut PI then too?

They still don't seem to have any idea what they are doing with the clubs. It just doesn't make sense for clubs to sit empty for months! Clubs open=profit. It doesn't matter if it's a dollar a day, it's still profit!

Disney is suppose to be about everyone, not just families. People have "gotten away from it" because YOU HAVEN'T PROMOTED IT!!!

I hope this effects their bottom dollar in the worst way possible and forces them to both realize their mistake and fire Kevin Lansberry for killing the island and making this stupid decision.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:12 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by zulemara View Post
I hope this effects their bottom dollar in the worst way possible and forces them to both realize their mistake and fire Kevin Lansberry for killing the island and making this stupid decision.
Lord knows I've taken shots at Lansberry on this forum and others, but latest word from the WDW groundlings is that while he ended up a "good soldier" following orders from the West Coast, he initially fought the closing--pure speculation on my part, but probably because he knew how profitable the clubs were. Especially since NOTHING has replaced or even been announced for the closed clubs--can't stress that enough. Everything "new" could have opened without closing the clubs, and probably would have benefited from the crowd the clubs brought.

The real people who need to be fired are the PR guys who came up with that "family-friendly" line. King Bob is right, it's laughable at this point.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:02 AM   #213
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Although last time I went by the big sign outside the PI entrance it read "shopping, dining, family entertainment."

They're plugging the family thing because they think that is where the money is. They also think that is what the majority of their visitors want, and to the people running the show right now, the majority rules. They may be correct for now, which puts them into the screw the locals phase - you all don't spend as much as the once-in-a-lifetime extended family reunion crowd. That will rebound when the families can't afford to make the trip anymore.

Someone on another thread somewhere just put up the opinion that the get in free on your birthday thing is meant to cater to the locals. Close PI, leave empty buildings standing around DTD, make it practically impossible for you all to get into the restaurants without booking them months ahead of time, but you can have a free birthday.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:20 PM   #214
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The odds of a tourist group/family being here on their birthday is overall rather slim. Sure, if you can plan a vacation around a free date, then great, but with 12 months in a year and really only a few summer tourism months, the odds are slim. If you want to be here for your spring break, you're going to be here that week. If you want to be here for Christmas or Labor Day or whatever, that's when you're coming. I don't see the FREE BIRTHDAY deal generating much business at all. As for locals, most of us who have any interest in visiting the parks already have multi-day tickets or annual passes and we come when we want. The FREE BIRTHDAY provides an incentive to go that day but is Disney really gaining much revenue? Of course official studies are no doubt going to show what a great success this program was. NOT!

In economics class I recall that a business that made $1.00 in profit stayed in that business and those that lost $1.00 got out of that business. I realize the real world doesn't quite work that way but surely PI made at least $1M in profit every year. The only reason to change is if they felt they could make more doing something else. Right now they're making nothing out there so they could have kept it going until they actually had something else to replace things with, as Jason pointed out.

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Old 10-15-2008, 04:28 PM   #215
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A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.

What's unusual here is that most companies in this line of business would announce what's coming ... in theory because once you lose a customer (in this case to CityWalk) there is a real risk they may not come back.

Disney has always relied on their sheer size and brand strength to bring 'em back anyway. Whether that will hold true in this case ultimately will be decided by what goes in there and elsewhere on property... and the strength of their brand may do as it has always done ... 'bring em back'.

To suggest that because we common folk see 'nothing happening' with those buildings and spaces ... then that is the reality is downright silly. I think a plan is afoot and Disney will announce whatever that is when they and they alone are darned good and ready and it is in their best interest to do so.

Closing the business at the end of fiscal makes a LOT of sense from an accounting practice and helps keep the accounting for the employees who may have to change business units etc. nice and clean. And same goes for the buildings, taxes and other charges.


However, the buildings will need either renovation and work -- either to be used as something else .. or worst case scenario if they are to be torn down. Again, from an accounting perspective, it's nice and clean to do that in a new fiscal and/or new business operating unit etc.

Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.

But since we don't know how long they'll be closed before something is announced ... we can't say what the need is, nor can we say for certain they were closed prematurely.

For that matter, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Disney opened several clubs independently over Christmas and New Year's Eve and simply charged a cover for each bar, each night.

And earlier in this thread it was suggested the contents and leases for the buildings have been sold. If that's the case, the dance clubs at least may be open in some other form well before Christmas.

If not, I assure you Disney doesn't care because a lease is usually being paid while construction and renovation are being done - esp if it's leasee paid work.

We simply don't know, a press release could be forthcoming in the next 14 days.. or never... or tomorrow.

Nobody likes to wait - least of all me. But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.



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Old 10-15-2008, 05:01 PM   #216
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But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.



Knox
I certainly hope you are right, but you definitely have more faith than I do..

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Old 10-15-2008, 05:48 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianGuy View Post
A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.

What's unusual here is that most companies in this line of business would announce what's coming ... in theory because once you lose a customer (in this case to CityWalk) there is a real risk they may not come back.

Disney has always relied on their sheer size and brand strength to bring 'em back anyway. Whether that will hold true in this case ultimately will be decided by what goes in there and elsewhere on property... and the strength of their brand may do as it has always done ... 'bring em back'.

To suggest that because we common folk see 'nothing happening' with those buildings and spaces ... then that is the reality is downright silly. I think a plan is afoot and Disney will announce whatever that is when they and they alone are darned good and ready and it is in their best interest to do so.

Closing the business at the end of fiscal makes a LOT of sense from an accounting practice and helps keep the accounting for the employees who may have to change business units etc. nice and clean. And same goes for the buildings, taxes and other charges.


However, the buildings will need either renovation and work -- either to be used as something else .. or worst case scenario if they are to be torn down. Again, from an accounting perspective, it's nice and clean to do that in a new fiscal and/or new business operating unit etc.

Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.

But since we don't know how long they'll be closed before something is announced ... we can't say what the need is, nor can we say for certain they were closed prematurely.

For that matter, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Disney opened several clubs independently over Christmas and New Year's Eve and simply charged a cover for each bar, each night.

And earlier in this thread it was suggested the contents and leases for the buildings have been sold. If that's the case, the dance clubs at least may be open in some other form well before Christmas.

If not, I assure you Disney doesn't care because a lease is usually being paid while construction and renovation are being done - esp if it's leasee paid work.

We simply don't know, a press release could be forthcoming in the next 14 days.. or never... or tomorrow.

Nobody likes to wait - least of all me. But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.



Knox
all very good points as usual. I can only hope there is a significant amount of truth to the buildings being sold or leased and that they will indeed reopen.

I'll tell ya one thing - unless the clubs are reopened with the same music selections, this CM is not giving one more dime to anything that goes in the PI area. I'll go to citywalk and give them my business. Brand strength can not match the anger I have for this decision. As I suggested before, perhaps Universal will LISTEN to their guests and consider having a 70s and 80s night or techno night at one of their clubs.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:08 PM   #218
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I wonder how much money Disney CM's dropped straight back into their coffers by going to PI over the years? Now, how much of that money is going to a direct competitor?
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #219
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Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.
Well that's where I thought you were going with this and I'm glad you didn't. Because PI is still there, there are still employees out there, there is still security out there, there are still building expenses. So the accounting department still has a ledger for PI and computer-wise it doesn't matter how many line items are cost-attributed to PI every week, 200 or 2000. I can tell you the line items for revenue from PI are extremely low.

I do agree that Disney probably knows what its plans are and are keeping it under the hat. But if you look at the very first entry that I began this thread with, it was seeking that very information which supposedly top Disney managers got to view. Disney employees are not very good at keeping secrets, that's for sure. Yet there has not been ONE SINGLE LEAK of information about this. Thus, that's why I tend to believe that Disney has close to no plans for most of PI except to lease it out.

BobK/Orlando
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:56 PM   #220
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I wonder how much money Disney CM's dropped straight back into their coffers by going to PI over the years? Now, how much of that money is going to a direct competitor?
I'm certainly one of them! The other thing to think about are the 6-7 THOUSAND college program kids, PLUS international students who went to PI on a regular basis. Yes, admission was free, but I assure you they spent their hard earned 6.79/hr wages on those 8 dollar drinks! Imagine 1 hour of cleaning a protein spill because some guest can't read nausea warnings, or 1 hour of non stop quick service action all for one drink. It went right back into the company,.

These college program kids NEED a place to go to relax and chill out. I practically lived at PI my second semester and others did as well. You can't work kids 40-45 hrs a week all hours of the night and take away the things the kids who enjoy dancing, comedy, and a few drinks want. This is just one more group that seems to get left out of the equation. Luckily I have friends who are locals and a car that gets 45mpg. Not everyone on the CP is that lucky.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:47 PM   #221
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The other thing to think about are the 6-7 THOUSAND college program kids, PLUS international students who went to PI on a regular basis. Yes, admission was free, but I assure you they spent their hard earned 6.79/hr wages on those 8 dollar drinks! Imagine 1 hour of cleaning a protein spill because some guest can't read nausea warnings, or 1 hour of non stop quick service action all for one drink. It went right back into the company,.
Former CP and I totally agree!!!

protein spill = vomit waiting to be cleaned up for all non CM's
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:07 AM   #222
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A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.
But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:25 PM   #223
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But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.
I think that your probably striking very close to the truth with this. Any company that had a signed lease and was presumably spending money already would certainly want the associated pub that accompanies it. You think Hanes wanted their T-shirt store kept a secret until ribbon cutting?

I think that their are things that are going to work against these clubs morphing into something else. The economy for one thing, companies are just not going to be in a hurry expand, let alone take on the kind of financial outpouring that would be required by disney, you dont think they are going to lease these properties on the cheap do you?

Also, keep in mind, they need a group of businesses to make this work that will feed off each other to make transforming this even the least bit desirable, just how easy do you think thats going to be?

Personnally, I think this area could be shuttered for quite awhile before any development takes place, and Disney may have to re-develop it themselves, or at least committ an awful lot of resources to that end to make it attractive enough to lure the type of businesses they would want to target.
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:39 AM   #224
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Quote:
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But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.
Yeah.. except.. I only mentioned that rumor was present in this thread.. I'm not entirely sure I believe it as stated.

I'm not particularly optimistic at all.. but I am saying that it's too early to pass judgement.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:03 AM   #225
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ok folks, I'll be honest... i have not read thru the entire 15 pages of this thread, so if this is addressed already, forgive me...

I just read on the Dis that Hanes will be opening a new create your own t-shirt shop at DownTown Disney -- I think this is part of the replacement scheme for PI. Anyhow, I remember waaay back when it was just DownTown Disney Village Marketplace. Inside one of the stores there was a create your own t-shirt thing. I actually bought a DarkWingDuck one for a friend as a joke (long story!).

That offering was eventually pulled and replaced -- and I'm assuming it was pulled because it wasn't getting as much traffic, or was no longer profitable. So --- Why put another one back in?

If anything -- this makes me think that there is a possibility that someday they'll bring back AC....HERE'S HOPING!!

GO SOX!!!!!!!
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