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Old 10-01-2008, 06:49 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH View Post
Notice when I posted my new rumor above earlier today, I underlined the word "definitely".

But if this was really definitely, could they build something like a PI and supposedly bigger than a PI......in a year?

Could they keep something like that a secret? Keep in mind that DVC timeshares at Contemporary were hardly Disney's best kept secret! The cat was out of the bag on that due to county permits. A large project couldn't be hidden.
Hmm....the only way I think they could do it in a year is if they already started - and that would mean Flamingo Crossings (or whatever the Western Way development is called - I hate that name). And supposedly some CMs have been calling it "another Downtown Disney".

Except AFAIK FC is 100% outsourced, if they are even keeping the property as part of Disney.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:10 AM   #122
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Has WDW even built (not refurbed, built) a new table-service restaurant in a decade? Raglan, Fuego, the handwriting is on the wall. WDW wants to collect rent, not run businesses. The new PI will be third party restaurants, maybe a third party club (or a hybrid like Dave & Busters). If anything ends up replacing Atlantic Dance, it will be run by a third party. I just don't see them suddenly deciding to build a whole new entertainment complex--or even just a new "Adventurers Club Restaurant."

Eventually, of course, WDW will realize their 1 in 6 guests who travel without kids are going off-property. And then they will have to come up with a new plan to counteract whatever the off-property threat is (most likely CityWalk). But I'm afraid that is years off.

BTW, re: "Flamingo Crossings." Everything released about it indicates (i) strictly third party motels/stores/restaurants (common chains at that) and (ii) while legally on WDW property, to the casual observer it will appear to be outside the WDW gates.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:04 PM   #123
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Is FC what is in progress at 429 and Western Way?
That is outside the WDW gate. And that is a looooong way off, if that is the upcoming FC. They have broke ground, probably laying sewer and water lines, and that is about it.
IF (and that is a BIG IF) Disney would decide to bring back any form of AC, our diehard antics will only add fuel to ideas that we are crazy enough to pay any kind of $ to revive AC. My guess they would not get that one reason for the AC popularity was a great evening of entertainment for under $25 in cover charge, even if buying a one night pass, plus beverages.
I could just see the wheels in someone's head turning and creating what they would consider a Grand Hoopla, but at grand price. AC ala HDDR.
Just bring back the club, sell AC THEMED merchandise and offer at least hors d'oeuvre type snacks. Even at over inflated prices we would pay it.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:55 PM   #124
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Flamingo Crossings is the indeed the project over on Western Way just beyond TOLL 429 (Western Beltway). All the press articles about it say it's strictly going to be (relatively) inexpensive motels, restaurants and gift shops. All of it is going to be outsourced. It's on Disney land but the land was recently removed from the Reedy Creek Improvement District. There are no plans for nightclubs out there to my knowledge and it would be a horrible location IMO because it's as far away from Orlando as you can get and still be on Disney property. No large scale night club operation can survive without locals supporting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Hmm....the only way I think they could do it in a year is if they already started - and that would mean Flamingo Crossings (or whatever the Western Way development is called - I hate that name). And supposedly some CMs have been calling it "another Downtown Disney".
Zulemara mentioned the rumor of a new PI first, referring to it as something along US 192 and as outsourced. The second person who had mentioned the rumor referred to it to me as something at the south end of Disney property but Disney-operated. The third person who mentioned this to me yesterday as "definitely" coming also referred to something towards the south end of Disney. So I just hope everyone is talking about a new PI, not just Flamingo Crossings which is at the south end (as well as west end) of Disney property, one exit north of US 192.

BobK/Orlando

Last edited by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH; 10-01-2008 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:07 PM   #125
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It's on Disney land but the land was recently removed from the Reedy Creek Improvement District.
When they de-annex the land, doesn't that imply that they are selling it, and thus no-longer Disney land? I thought that was the case with the Four Seasons...
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:38 PM   #126
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In the largest twist of irony yet to date in this tale, as of this afternoon, there is now a merchandise cart set up outside in front of the Adventurers Club library stairs. I still cant believe my eyes....
Tonight they even had a guy playing reggae on the steps of Adventurers Club just next to the sphinx. It was really heartbreaking.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:53 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
When they de-annex the land, doesn't that imply that they are selling it, and thus no-longer Disney land? I thought that was the case with the Four Seasons...
No. Read the wiki about RCID.

History is basically (high level and highly summarized):
-Disney and State folks agree to sell land to Disney
-Disney asks Orange County FD about the 190ft castle made of fire-resistant fiberglass, put front gate in Orange so 1% sales tax goes to the county
-Orange County FD laughs, not approving that (fiberglass bad rep for bursting into flames
-Disney asks Osceola County FD about the 190ft castle, move front gate to Osceola
-Osceola County FD laughs
-Disney goes to state, granted an Improvement District
-Disney now gets to build virtually anything they want only answering to themselves and the state
-Disney responsible for own fire department (RCFD)
-Disney responsible for own police*
-Disney decided to go with Security, rather than a police force (police have to file paperwork that gets disclosed and appears on the cover of the Sentinel). Instead they pay the respective County's police for the service, and call them when required.

Removing that land from the District but keeping them on property let's them collect rent $$$, but removes the obligation to do things such as inspect buildings, provide fire/rescue services, and do other things usually handled by the county.
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:28 AM   #128
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Sorry if this has already been posted, but in Len Testa's normally reliable news section of his site it says:

"Disney has said they will develop the space in the future - like the Wonders of Life pavilion..."

So, this suggests that nothing will be built to replace Pleasure Island, at least not for the forseeable future, but it is there to be developed in the future.
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:36 AM   #129
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Update on the T-shirt shop...I was slightly off on location. It's going IN the old scrapbooking/book store, next to Art of Disney. The shop is already closed, with signs promising the make-your-own t-shirt shop in "Fall 2008." Still about as far away from PI as you can get and still be in DTD.

Last night DTD was empty. Literally walked up to the register at Earl of Sandwich, can't remember ever doing that. Walkways had only a smattering of people. Sure it's the off-season, but I also know a lot of people, even locals, confuse PI/DTD. Wondering if this will quickly blow up in management's face.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:52 AM   #130
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Wondering if this will quickly blow up in management's face.
If the plan all along was to build a new, better, larger PI somewhere else on property, then all this doesn't matter. I hope whatever comes to the old PI area is fun and successful.

But if there is no plan for a new PI then clearly this already has blown up in management's face!

BobK/Orlando
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:22 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH View Post
If the plan all along was to build a new, better, larger PI somewhere else on property, then all this doesn't matter. I hope whatever comes to the old PI area is fun and successful.

But if there is no plan for a new PI then clearly this already has blown up in management's face!

BobK/Orlando
I think it would have made sense to build a new PI before closing the old one, so the traffic could have migrated. Therefore, since they have migrated, to CityWalk, I doubt there was a PI in the works.....unless they are now scrambling trying to recover what they have lost.

There was a time Disney looked around the area and saw where money was being taken off property and then build something to counter act it. PI was the response to Church Street Station area, Fantasia Gardens in reaction to everyone playing miniture golf on I drive, Typhoon Lagoon to counter Wet and Wild, etc.
So I guess the current strategy is after we put the little guy out of business and then deep six the project. (So look for the bull dozers next to plow under Fantasia Gardens). But the people still want these forms of entertainment.....hence the exodus to City Walk.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:46 PM   #132
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Now I'm really confused..
I thought they WERE rebuilding PI, albeit not with the same clubs. I thought they were adding shops and restaurants to make it "family friendly".
I was holding out hope for a new surprise AC.

The new area being built.. I also thought that was off property, and geared more for moderate budgets.
I never tied that in with a replacement for PI.

Where am I going wrong here?

MG
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:14 PM   #133
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Where am I going wrong here?
You're assuming Disney is going to operate like Disney of the recent past.

Disney would more than love to have dance clubs, night clubs, whatever clubs - just as long as someone else builds them, runs thems and pays the rent on time.

Disney itself would rather not take on the captial costs or operating expenses of actually running restaurants, clubs and shops. That's for all those little and guible business fops in Orlando to worry about.

Instead, Disney is trying to come up with ways to resell you the parks. To make you buy a second ticket to something that's already built and paid for. Why do you think Mickey throws so many parties in the Magic Kingdom? Why do you think Disney is talking about putting in a $300 a plate buffet so you can see Animal Kingdom after dark? Can anyone else see how 'Fantasimic!' can be changed to a hard ticket event too?

It's all the money game. Disney gets free money when people pay them rent. They get even lots more money from mega-priced hard ticket events running the parks at half capacity.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:24 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maistre Gracey View Post
I thought they WERE rebuilding PI, albeit not with the same clubs. I thought they were adding shops and restaurants to make it "family friendly".
I was holding out hope for a new surprise AC.
What's now Pleasure Island will simply be the center section of Downtown Disney, without the Pleasure Island name or its mission as a nightclub complex.

To the degree that any of the new tenants offer entertainment or dancing, the former Pleasure Island may have a nightclub element, just as the current West Side has the House of Blues.

Quote:
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The new area being built.. I also thought that was off property, and geared more for moderate budgets.
I never tied that in with a replacement for PI.
Flaming Crossings is on Disney property, but all indications are that it won't be Disney-branded. To guests, it will seem to be off-property. The reports so far suggest lower-end chain hotels, timeshares, and the retail chains that you would find off-property. In other words, Flamingo Crossings is much more likely to have a Comfort Inn and a Walgreen's (and dozens other chains) than a new Adventurer's Club and a new Comedy Warehouse.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:39 PM   #135
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I see. I guess I put too much stock in what I was reading here earlier.. I thought the Disney execs had big plans for the area.

So apparently the clubs will just wither away until a tenant comes along? Are there any plans or direction from Disney on what the area will become in a year or two?

Thanx..

MG
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