DVC RESALES
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:27 PM   #1
linkinpaak
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Should I be interested in DVC?

My wife and I fell in love with the Animal Kingdom Lodge and likely intend on vacationing there at least every other year for about a week. From my reading, the Villas and Lodge are very similar except the Lodge generally has some smaller more affordable rooms. Given this, is DVC something we should be interested in? How far in advance do you need to book in order to get a room of your choice in the Animal Kingdom Villas specifically?
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:45 PM   #2
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Second question first: you can book up to 11 months in advance for your home resort and 7 months for the other resorts. From what I've read on here Animal Kingdom typically isn't too hard to book even just a few months in advance. Bay Lake Tower, Wilderness Lodge, and Beach Club are the resorts that typically fill up first.

In general, DVC is a good deal for someone who:

Will go to WDW at least every other year for the next 15 years, likes to stay in Deluxe accommodations, has the cash to pay up front.

To be specific for your situation: if you want to go every other year for a week in July at AKL and stay in a Savanna view studio you'd need 70 pts (139 pts for a savannah view studio in July). Most of the point blocks for resale are at least 100. Current resale prices are roughly $70, so you would need about 70 X 100 = 7,000 plus about $1,000 for closing and maintenance fees. So if you have $8,000 in cash you can just blow on DVC and you're planning on going to WDW at least every year and staying at a deluxe resort (you won't be forced to go to AKL you could stay at any of the 7) then DVC will make sense for you.

If you don't have the cash, if you don't plan on going to WDW for the next 15 years, then it may make more sense to rent DVC points or to continue to pay cash for the regular AKL rooms.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #3
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There are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney. Reading through the posts here on the DIS will answer most of your questions.

If DVC was a good fit for everyone, then everyone would own a DVC contract.

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:23 PM   #4
linkinpaak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
There are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney. Reading through the posts here on the DIS will answer most of your questions.

If DVC was a good fit for everyone, then everyone would own a DVC contract.

Bill
I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkinpaak View Post
I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?
As a cash guest you come an go when you want and Disney wants you back so they are always offering deals, maybe an upgrade, and maybe rooms in better shape compared to DVC.

Disney controls the DVC and does pretty much want they want. They change the rules, point requirements, view categories as they see fit. You are locked into Disney vacations for the time that you own the contract so Disney has little reason to bend over backward to keep you happy. They make all of their money selling new contract at twice the price of a resale contract.

Yes you can add an additional contract to your membership, we own 23 contracts currently at 5 different resorts.

I suggest that you make sure that AKV is where you want to own, we thought that we would love BLT and bought there but it has turned out to be our least favorite. I also suggest that you take the time to understand the UY, banking, and borrowing rules before you purchase.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:45 PM   #6
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I would add a couple of things:

1) Make sure you have added your upfront cost for the points in your break-even calculations.

2) Be honest with yourself about savannah view. If you've stayed with that view many times before, you may want to figure out how many more points it would cost to stay in that view on each of your trips. I'd hate for you to have spent all this money only to be X points shy of what you actually wanted each time you go.

3) The biggest differences about DVC villas vs. cash resort rooms are -- a queen and a pullout couch in a studio vs. two queens in the resort room. You won't get daily housekeeping with DVC (though you can add it by paying for it). And DVC tends to book up much farther in advance than the Disney resorts. Last-minute DVC trips often mean booking at four or five months out instead of seven or even 11.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkinpaak View Post
I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?
You did some very good things here. You compared to rack rate minus a sizable discount. You accounted for increases. You also compared to the next best option, which is renting DVC points. I would suggest that your numbers are a bit off, but nothing huge. I would assume a $7,000 initial buy in, not $8,000. (Furthermore, if you buy a loaded contract, you can rent out a year's points to offset your initial cost and bring that number down closer to $6,000). I would also assume 4% increases in dues instead of 3%. But all in all, it's a good analysis.

So, if after that it makes sense for you, then you're not missing anything. It's not "too good to be true" as you put it. You have to fork over $7,000 up front, and it's more costly than renting for 10-12 years. That is the downside. If you're ok with that (and most of us are), then you should feel comfortable moving ahead. Good luck!
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:31 AM   #8
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You did some very good research, I did the same thing and it came between 6 and 7 years as a break even. I think, you'll find most people on this thread came up with similar numbers using the current resale prices.

There are no other fees other than the annual MF. I do agree with you that it is easier to add on points direct, than through resale, as it would be hard to find a small add on with the same use year. If the same resort and use year is the goal.

I had no luck and good luck on negotiating a resale purchase. I bought a two sub 100 point contracts. One at AKL, which, I couldn't even lower by $1 and one at BCV which I was able to lower by $10. Both I contacted the agents as soon as it was posted. And made an agreement on the price that same day.

You've crunched the numbers correctly, so I think you have it figured out financially correct. My only advice to you, is to sign up for the reseller's mailing list and start browsing their listings daily and have a set price in mind, that way if you get what you want in terms of numbers you can agree over the phone. I didn't see you list a UY preference, but as of July 2012 according to dvcnews.com, AKL has 29% of points in Dec and 10% in June. So if you assume that all people who resell their points are distributed evenly in the points that were sold, you can assume that you'll see 29% of the resales are Dec UY and 10% are June UY. About 19% is still unsold though and probably not allocated. Not sure if that helps, I guess it can in terms of what is available and what isn't.

Last edited by RSWA2; 02-18-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkinpaak View Post
My wife and I fell in love with the Animal Kingdom Lodge and likely intend on vacationing there at least every other year for about a week. From my reading, the Villas and Lodge are very similar except the Lodge generally has some smaller more affordable rooms. Given this, is DVC something we should be interested in? How far in advance do you need to book in order to get a room of your choice in the Animal Kingdom Villas specifically?
You sound like the DW and I (and the DD now, too!!) ...

We also love the Animal Kingdom Lodge/Villas!

Paying $2000+ to stay for a week at AKL vs. using that $$ to buy into DVC ... ?

I ran the numbers pretty much the same way you did ... and we bought a 100 pt (loaded) AKV resale contract this past August ...

But also consider this: when I was running the numbers, I was using AKL rack rates for 2012 - when I just checked the 2013 rates, they'd gone up 10% (not 3% - at least for "Jersey Week") - so the potential future "savings" may be larger than I originally thought ...

A word of warning: don't stay in a 1BR Savanna View ... you'll get a bad case of "addonitis"!!
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AKV-Kidani - 11/12; AKV-Jambo - 11/13 ; AKV-Jambo - 12/14


Dec 2008 Trip report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post29702539
Sep 2009 Trip Report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post34156519
Sep 2009 TR continued (but never finished) at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....7#post36403597
March 2011 PTR at http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2643038
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelp

A word of warning: don't stay in a 1BR Savanna View ... you'll get a bad case of "addonitis"!!
Truth. Happened to us too. Jambo has Boma, but holy crap - we were FLOORED by the 1BR rooms at Kadani.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #11
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we bought a 100 pt (loaded) AKV resale contract this past August
Have you used it yet? Assuming yes based on your "addonitis" remark lol. Are you enjoying it? Also assuming yes for the same reason as the aforementioned
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:03 PM   #12
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Have you used it yet? Assuming yes based on your "addonitis" remark lol. Are you enjoying it? Also assuming yes for the same reason as the aforementioned
With the loaded contract, we had 100 pts to use/lose/rent by Dec 1, so we spent 99 of them for a long-weekend in a 1BR Savanna View at Kidani ...

And the villa was AMAZING!!

The DD loved having her "own room", even though she had to sleep on the sleeper-sofa - and we literally had to drag her out of the whirlpool tub! And we had our own room with a King-sized bed (and shower to match ... LOL).

For our next week+ stay in November, we booked a Standard View 1BR at Jambo House (with the DD telling me "I want my own room again ... OK?" - so she's already spoiled!). For the longer stay, we think the convenience of Mara and Boma will make things a bit easier ...

I have a TR work-in-progrees in the DVC Trip report section (unfortunately, none of the links in my siggie will get you there). There's some pictures of Kidani, with more to come ...

We had seen some of the othert Deluxe and DVC resorts before buying in, but we toured a few more this past trip.

And after seeing those resorts - although they are nice - it just confirmed that AKV is something extra special. So any lingering doubts we had about buying a "second home" were obliterated ...

Now I just hope the DW and DD won't be disappointed when we go to Aulani in a couple of years and "only" stay in an Oceanview Studio ...
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Off site - 8/76, 10/90, 10/94; POFQ - 5/07; AKL - 12/08; AKL - 9/09; Off site - 6/10; AS Movies - 3/11;
AKV-Kidani - 11/12; AKV-Jambo - 11/13 ; AKV-Jambo - 12/14


Dec 2008 Trip report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post29702539
Sep 2009 Trip Report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post34156519
Sep 2009 TR continued (but never finished) at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....7#post36403597
March 2011 PTR at http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2643038
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