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Old 01-06-2013, 03:57 PM   #1
TheRustyScupper
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RFID Possible Major Issue

1) Training is now going on for RFID purchases.
2) There are some REALLY cool things, both for WDW and the guest.
3) But there is a major OOPS on its way.
4) At the end of a transaction, the casher has to hit a Clear Folio button.
5) This is different than Total button the casher will hit at end of purchase
6) If this button is not pushed.
. . . transactions are continued on the RFID chip (room charge)
. . . all future transactions are continued on the same RFID chip
7) So, as an example,
. . . Fred buys his souvenir, casher missed Clear Folio button, and Fred leaves
. . . Sue comes by and gets a souvenir - - - and Fred gets the bill
. . . Alfred comes by with a souvenir - - - and Fred is paying
. . . Nancy comes by for a souvenir - - - you guessed it, Fred is paying
8) Until Clear Folio is depressed, the same person pays for all transactions.

9) Word to the wise when making ANY purchase with RFID chip
. . . make sure you SAVE the receipt (even when buying a Coke at a cart)
. . . make sure the register person depresses the Clear Folio button
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:29 PM   #2
anthony2k7
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sounds like a very temporary issue - surely disney has control of their own POS software to put a fix in ASAP?

Simple solution would be when the total button is pressed it also calls the clear folio code.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:21 PM   #3
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I can see this as an easy fix, considering it should be simple enough that once a purchase is ended, the RFID system resets to its default state. Also, this problem would probably not occur if the next customer is also using RFID, or even credit for that matter since theyre all in one now and scanning a new card into the system would either override it or alert the cashier that two "cards" are being used. Now I know a lot of people still pay cash but it seems like an easy fix to me.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:04 PM   #4
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If Rusty noticed this so will many others who are being trained. Pretty simpe fix really as pointed out by Anthony2k7. It will be addressed.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydweller View Post
If Rusty noticed this so will many others who are being trained. Pretty simpe fix really as pointed out by Anthony2k7. It will be addressed.
1) I would hope.
2) BUT, there was a trial at Epcot with errors.
. . . the trial lasted three days
. . . there were fewer errors on the 2nd and 3rd days
. . . but, there were still errors
3) They did not fix anything for the roll-out.
4) The system remains the same.

NOTE: Even with reduced errors, can you imagine the problem(s) when
even a few get through? Especially if someone has a debit card as their
KTTW charging. If they hit KTTW limit, the card could get hit, and it could
reduce their bank account severely. Once done, it takes 5-7 days to
reverse the bank account charge, and sometimes up to 2-weeks.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:19 PM   #6
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Thanks Rusty.
Otherwise, too many peope with too much faith in Walmar ... Err, Disney
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #7
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Where and when does the guest reach his hand over at the store checkout to press the back of his wrist (with the wristband) to an RFID reader?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRustyScupper View Post
6) If this button is not pushed.
. . . transactions are continued on the RFID chip (room charge)
. . . all future transactions are continued on the same RFID chip
7) So, as an example,
. . . Fred buys his souvenir, casher missed Clear Folio button, and Fred leaves
. . . Sue comes by and gets a souvenir - - - and Fred gets the bill
. . . Alfred comes by with a souvenir - - - and Fred is paying
. . . Nancy comes by for a souvenir - - - you guessed it, Fred is paying
Back at the Resort, Fred checks hsi foiio and finds various purchases he dd not make. He disputes those items with the result that nobody pays for the souvenirs that Sue, Alfred, and Nancy receive.

Alternatively, after audit, the cast member who rang up the purchases gets reprimanded (or cut from the cast) because three times he failed to press the Clear Folio button, namely after Fred's purchase, after Sue's purchase, and after Alfred's purchase.

I could not see a software bug like this staying around for very long.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:08 AM   #8
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I would imagine Disney would work on a fix on this problem ASAP.

This roll out is big news for them. This morning the whole system was a news story on a Boston news station, and in the Boston Globe. If they are making sure that news outlets around the country know about it and are announcing it for a springtime launch...they will make sure major glitches are solved....at least I hope so!
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:13 AM   #9
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If the vendor says there was a glitch and it is the vendor's system then I say the customer is always right.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee2u View Post
Another problem - while they had me choose and enter a PIN upon checkin, the PIN was never required when I purchased anything. Kind of defeats the purpose.
Just a question to help understand, did you buy anything over $50 if not then a pin isn't required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seashoreCM View Post
If the vendor says there was a glitch and it is the vendor's system then I say the customer is always right.
Right and since this would cost Disney money there is motivation for them to fix it. Disney would have to eat the loss.

I think the OP is being a bit alarmist. If they and other trainees reported this, you did didn't you OP, then this goes a long way to fixing it. Also, being in IT you can have people being trained while you fix and improve your POS system. So I don't have my head in the sand about this but know when a company has an issue that will lose them money they do address it and Disney doesn't want to lose money.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydweller View Post
Right and since this would cost Disney money there is motivation for them to fix it. Disney would have to eat the loss.
Ah, but the question is...which is less...fixing the issue or just paying for the errors? Disney's first response to a customer complaint is to refund their money or points rather then fix the issue... I have never and will never put charging abilities on my room. So it is a non-issue for me but find it interesting, especially since they have already acknowledged a security issue with the RFID by not using RFID enabled access cards to sensitive areas... Thanks for posting this Rusty.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:33 AM   #12
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FYI, wdwmagic.com already reports they are applying the PIN code requirement to all purchases. So there has already been one "fix".
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydweller View Post
Just a question to help understand, did you buy anything over $50 if not then a pin isn't required.
Yes, twice my purchases were more than $50 and I never had to use my PIN.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:22 PM   #14
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I have to throw my two on this because of my experience doing billing at WDW...

The scupper is right that this could be a HUGE issue...and no, i have no faith in any easy fixes at WDW - at least not internally.

The "cast" make tens if not hundreds of thousand charge errors there a year. it is and has always been a major problem since they went to the resort charge system. And rectifying disputes is time consuming, inconvenient, and they have never devoted enough staffing, training time, or (frankly) concern to quality control when it comes to dealing with electronic charging/money.

Its a little dirty secret.

Now, I am 10 years past my "prime" when it comes to these things...so i can only hope that they have newer, better, more efficient ways of dealing with these things.

But just to give you a bit of techno history:
the resort system was DOS based until 2004 - i believe. DOS base systems were essentially eliminated on the front lines around 1995.
The resort reader system - Vingvision 2 - had been in practice for 5 years in major hotel chains before WDW adopted it. They have at least recently gone to the touch pads - but those are pretty simple devices these days.
The "windows" system that they use now...is probably very similar to the somewhat rudimentary one they implemented back in the last decade.

And remember - since almost all transactions are electronic now - there is no way or need to balance the registers - by and large - so mistakes go largely undetected at first and then are only noticed later and cause the need for more attention, fact gathering, credit adjustment later. That is not a staffing priority.

Think of one place on Earth where you can say that they care less about who you are when you charge and do it at such volume...all the while doing it in massively crowded areas surrounded by people from 200 different countries.
You probably won't find one. Credit fraud/ error is rampant - intentional and unintentional.

And don't forget training had gone (under my direct experience) from what was almost "months" to "a few days" in a very short amount of time. Hiring standards - due to lack of qualified, willing, or skilled candidates - fell with the training levels proportionally.

So could this be a huge problem - even if its counter intuitive?

You bet your rat's....

well...you get it.

The original poster doesn't tend to post these things lightly - i would give the benefit of the doubt that this has been thought out and is valid.

And some of the more experienced posters who offered the "quick fix" and "they'll figure it out"....who are you thinking of, exactly?

WDW is a large property - it has NEVER been a technologically competent property since perhaps EPCOT went on line. Everything put into place takes more time, costs a fortune, and often is poorly maintained or the victim of massive operator error.

Fast pass - worked - but it took forever to tweak
Dining system - worked - but they took forever to put it into e-form - and they bagged it in its best form (priority seating)
gps bus routing still doesn't work right - and its been 15 years in the making.

heck, now that i think about it - how long AFTER you could book a room online at marriot or holiday inn did it take for you to be able to get one at WDW?
5? 10 years?

Their own PRIVATE timeshare club has had that ability for a big fat 1-2 years...that's pretty pathetic.

My point is that don't assume that since this thing cost a fortune and certainly LOOKS cool ( i for one would volunteer to test it with any of its features wired to my swiss bank account (more like Canadian) at any moment - because this could ultimately lead to less staffing requirements that will allow more expansion/ offerings to the clientele) - doesn't mean that it wont have big flaws and problems that could take years to hash out.

And a final note on the "the employees will be reprimanded or fired if they screw up" sentiment...
That WDW is LONG gone...it was gone 20 years+ ago. The eisner expansion of the property never took into account how hard it would be to maintain a huge work force and keep the competent ones happy...it never assumed massive health care skyrockets - it never assumed that it would have to increase wages to keep quality people - so they abandoned that long ago.
WDW staff is just a staff - it is not "elite" by any stretch.

They could build an elite, comparatively low cost staff with the glut of young kids coming out of school with no professional job prospects these days - but they've yet to see how it could be done.

Until then, trust all warning about potential problems in the system - they aren't just random musings.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:47 PM   #15
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I understand all about legacy systems...until recently I had to keep a Windows 95 box running to run our door key entry system, because it couldn't be replaced without replacing all the readers, controllers, etc. It had been running (not continuously, mind you) for 15 years. And my dad brought me in to try and resurrect a computer that monitored one of the machines in a pulmonary function testing lab. It was a PS/2 running OS/2 - long after the PS/2 and it's MCA bus architecture died. But it couldn't be replaced without replacing the very expensive equipment as well.

Because no one writes drivers to support old hardware any more. They force you to upgrade everything.

And I'm not really questioning what Rusty says...I have long trusted his posts.

What I'm having a problem understanding is why this particular problem even exists.

I'm an IT guy with some experience in retail. I'm not familiar with any current Point-of-Sale design that keeps a "folio" open after the charge is made and authorized. And I don't see why it is desirable to do otherwise. Want to add something after the charge goes through? It's just another transaction.

The POS register should forget everything about the charge info once the transaction is authorized. And even if it didn't, when the next guest presents their band/card/whatever, it should use THAT for the current transaction.

If this is a common practice in retail it is idiotic and the retailers should be called out on it.
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