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-   -   Why is DVC so confusing? (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3105202)

baronvonshush 05-01-2013 11:02 PM

Why is DVC so confusing?
 
I'm sure there is no simple answer to this question but I'm asking it anyways.

My husband and I just returned from our first family vacation to WDW. We had an amazing time with our 1yr old and 3yr old. While we were there, we sat through an hour presentation about DVC to get the free fast passes. Also, we were genuinely curious, even though we had no intention of buying that day. Upon coming home, we decided we would really like to do a Disney vacation every year. Our kids are the perfect age to start going every year now. Our agent sent us home with a large packet of information but it really only highlights how many points you need and all of the perks of being a DVC member. It doesn't really talk about cost or any of the hairy details. From what I understand, if we buy in now at 100 points it will cost $14,500 and we will probably settle in around 10-12% interest.

After reading around here, I'm even more confused. So you can buy from a reseller? How does that work? What happens if I buy from a reseller and not disney? What is the difference? If I buy from a reseller do I own a piece of Disney property just like if I were buying from Disney? Also the incentive they gave us was if we buy in now we get double points our first year. Does that make it worth buying into Disney. Our agent didn't talk about home resorts or the price per point difference.

Honestly, we loved it so much that if we could we would go back again this year. My husbands vacation time doubles next year and we want to spend at least half of his vacation time at Disney. I'd love to buy in if its going to save us money and make our trip more enjoyable.

I'm sorry for the novel, this is just a big decision and we want to make the right choice!

DizBub 05-01-2013 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48274099)
.

After reading around here, I'm even more confused. So you can buy from a reseller? How does that work? What happens if I buy from a reseller and not disney? What is the difference? If I buy from a reseller do I own a piece of Disney property just like if I were buying from Disney? Also the incentive they gave us was if we buy in now we get double points our first year. Does that make it worth buying into Disney. Our agent didn't talk about home resorts or the price per point difference.

Yes, you can buy resale and you can buy at any resort you can find a contract for.

Assuming they were trying to sell you AKV Kidani at $145 per point. Well, you can buy 100 points resale for half that price. Check the banner at the top of this page. The Timeshare Store is a sponsor and there is a complete listing of what they have for sale. The difference in resale is that the timeframe is about 60 days to get your points and you will either have to pay cash or arrange your own financing. You can get get "double points" through resale by buying a "loaded" contract, meaning there could be last year's (2012) points available along with current points (2013).

There are restrictions on resale points. You cannot use them for cruises, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection or Disney Collection. Very expensive use of points anyway, not a good value.

Everything else is exactly the same as buying directly from Disney if you buy resale when you use your points.......except the price. The savings are real and worth it.

Keep reading and learning as much as you can before you buy. If you talk to the guide you spoke to during your tour, he will try to scare you away from resale but remember he's looking at a big, fat commission from you.

ryanl81 05-02-2013 01:23 AM

Stick with it and as the previous poster said, keep reading through the forum and you will find a wealth of information, views and guidance sone good some not so good but will all hopefully lead you to a better understanding to be able to make a choice.

Your circumstances sound similar to mine, I have just opted to go resale and would be more than happy to help where I can :-)

standardgirl 05-02-2013 02:40 AM

Think about it this way... when you buy a house, you can buy one from the developer (like buying DVC from Disney). In doing so, you would have more options/customization possibilities (like buying DVC from Disney, you can, in most cases, choose the Use Year "UY" that best suit you, and exact number of points you want to buy, etc.). OTOH, when you buy a new built from a developer, chances are they are more expensive than buying an already-built/lived-in house from a seller. This is like buying DVC from the resellers. In you go this route, you will save quite a bit of money, but you will have to look to see what's available in terms of resorts, UY, number of points. You can;t just go with what you want, but rather have to go with what's available. However, you will usually be able to find what you want anyway, or least close enough.

The other difference between buying direct and resale is that there are some additional restrictions on DVC purchased from a reseller. Namely what others have said already. DVC points give you the option of not only vacationing in DVC properties (Vero, WDW, Aulani), but also the options to vacation through various "exchanges" (Concierge collection, Adventures by Disney, Disney Cruise, etc.). Contracts purchased via resale cannot benefit from certain exchanges. However, the $ per point value you get on most of those exchanges is quite low anyway, which is why if you read on this board, people will tell you that the "restrictions" don't really matter - since the $ value is so low, you shouldn't utilize those options in the first place anyway, and therefore restricting it doesn't really make any difference.

You mentioned also about the 10-12% interest in your original post. Just be careful, any potential saving by buying in to DVC may be completely wiped out and you may very well end up paying more if you buy direct with financing from Disney. Of course, without the details, I can't do any calculation, but in general, financing DVC wipes out most, if not all, of the savings... Look for 0% credit cards, or get a Disney credit card which offers 6 month 0% APR on DVC purchases, plus a 2% cashback. :)

disneynutz 05-02-2013 05:26 AM

Disney wants to make money selling you a timeshare direct. They will not tell you everything you need to know to make an informed decision. They will make it seem better than it is and won't tell you any of the negatives.

Disney is a very expensive luxury vacation and buying a DVC timeshare will lock you into repeat vacations. You will pay dues that increase each year along with your tickets, travel, food, and other costs.

Financing can really increase the cost of buying.

You can buy from an owner who wants to get out, that's called resale. Disney made some rule changes taking away some of the places that you can use your points if you buy resale. That really shouldn't matter because the best use of points is staying at a DVC resort, other places are a better deal when paying cash out of pocket.

There are many rules, policies, and ins and outs to using your DVC points and you will be much better off understanding them before you buy.

:earsboy: Bill

kenspidey 05-02-2013 06:11 AM

Just to give you an example for the same amount of money 14k .... I bought 100 points at old Key West and 150 points at Vero Beach ..... a total of 250 points a year. It just just takes time and a little patience but it's well worth it.

ercrbc 05-02-2013 06:26 AM

You have come to a great place to find all the information you could ever want about DVC :thumbsup2

We took our first trip in the Fall of 09 with our then 4yo DD and 1yo DS. At that time we realized that we wanted to take yearly trips, in villa style accommodations. I looked at direct prices, BLT was selling for less than $100/pt. 4 YEARS AGO. Prices have gone up at a ridiculously high rate the past few years. We spent about 6mo researching and finally bought a contract through resale. Then added on another small contract a year later when I found out baby#3 was on the way. WE LOVE OUR DVC :goodvibes

Start by looking at the point charts for all the DVC resorts (convenient links are available above!), research the different rooms styles and amenities at each resort (pools, location, theme) for each resort. Figure out which resort you would prefer to be your 'home' resort, and figure out how many pts you would need for your trips. Keep in mind certain resorts are MUCH harder to get into at 7mo out and you really need the 11 mo booking window to get those rooms. (ie BWV standard rooms in the Fall, BLT standard rooms any time, AKV club or value rooms, BCV most of the year....)

Take a look at the resale broker that sponsors this site, and also do a search for the other resale sites (who don't sponsor the Dis and you can't refer to them here). We bought one resale from the TSS, and another from a broker equally professional but I can't put their name here ;) Read the ROFR thread (Right of First Refusal), this is a list of Dis members who have bought a resale contract and the details to which it closed. ROFR is the waiting period you must go through after putting a contract together for a resale. Disney has 30 days to refuse the sale of the contract and buy it back at the price you are offering.

Downsides of resale: It takes about 2 months, longer if Disney buys back your contract and you have to start over. You also don't have the ability to use pts for cruises, adventures by Disney or for the NON DVC resorts*** Please read more into this, if you look up these pt charts you will see these options are GROSSLY OVERPRICED and a very poor value for your pts anyway.

Upside of resale: SAVE TONS OF $$$$. Also you will be getting the resort YOU want, not what your 'Guide' wants to sell you. Oh and did I mention you will save TONS OF $$$$!!!!

I hope this is helpful! Good luck!

Minniesgal 05-02-2013 06:30 AM

I would advise before you get too bogged down with $14000 or not spend some time thinking realistically how often do you want to go to WDW, what type of room do you want to stay in and where and for how long. Before going into price per point it is better to have a realistic idea of how many points you need to meet your requirements then you can look at the budget. I get the idea Disney have done you a quote on a pretty arbitrary 100 points but if you find you need more you might need to buy again it would be better to start knowing how many points you really need and the realistic cost of that before buying. You don't need to buy all the points you need at once we bought in three steps and paid cash as we could afford, but we knew upfront what we wanted to spend overall. 100 points doesn't go very far for a family of four who travel every year.

dbs1228 05-02-2013 07:32 AM

Read, read, read! Study these boards it is a wealth of information and do the math! We are waiting on a BWV contract 200 points and it comes with 2011, 2012 and 2013 coming in Oct and we will be paying about 13500.00 with closing costs. If Disney waives the contract we will rent the 200 - 2011 points out.

There is a website David's rental where you can use his points calculator to put in dates of travel and it will show you how many points at each resort you will need for that week for each room type!

BTW if you are not going to have a car while staying I would look into one of the 3 resorts that is within walking distance to a park - BLT walk to MK, BWV walk to Epcot and boat to HS same with BCV. We own at BLT since it is our favorite park and the walk cannot be beat. Our neighbors have 3 kids 5, 7 and 8 they own at BLT and have for years - they do not want to stay anywhere else since walking back to the room for nap time/down time is priceless - then easily go back to the park once refreshed. Good luck

lodge 05-02-2013 07:44 AM

Reading through this I thought of another advantage to DIS, Disney executives don't need to do a controlled blind study through traditional means, they could use the boards to see people's perspectives on various topics. It's interesting that we never know who we are responding to, but openly offer advice, opinions, and support to strangers.

OP, the more you read through all sorts of these threads, the more you'll comprehend more of it all... then something new comes up, that you never thought of, and you learn even more- it continues perpetually! :thumbsup2

ELMC 05-02-2013 10:01 AM

You've gotten some great advice already in this thread. I'll add my thoughts and try not to be too repetitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48274099)
I'm sure there is no simple answer to this question but I'm asking it anyways.

My husband and I just returned from our first family vacation to WDW. We had an amazing time with our 1yr old and 3yr old. While we were there, we sat through an hour presentation about DVC to get the free fast passes. Also, we were genuinely curious, even though we had no intention of buying that day.

Good strategy. I fully advocate going to the presentation because it is a good way to learn about the nuts and bolts of DVC. But at the same time I caution people to question what they hear, as I'll get to when I respond to a comment below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48274099)
Upon coming home, we decided we would really like to do a Disney vacation every year. Our kids are the perfect age to start going every year now. Our agent sent us home with a large packet of information but it really only highlights how many points you need and all of the perks of being a DVC member. It doesn't really talk about cost or any of the hairy details. From what I understand, if we buy in now at 100 points it will cost $14,500 and we will probably settle in around 10-12% interest.

Two things. First, you are in a good place because you are aware of what you don't know about DVC. My advice would be to turn DVC into a hobby. Spend some time each day reading the "Purchasing DVC" boards here on the DIS and you will fill in a lot of the gaps in understanding. The second thing is...please take some time to read the threads on financing, and what it does to the cost of owning DVC. If you insist on financing, please know that you can finance a resale purchase, which carries much less risk in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48274099)

After reading around here, I'm even more confused. So you can buy from a reseller? How does that work? What happens if I buy from a reseller and not disney? What is the difference? If I buy from a reseller do I own a piece of Disney property just like if I were buying from Disney? Also the incentive they gave us was if we buy in now we get double points our first year. Does that make it worth buying into Disney. Our agent didn't talk about home resorts or the price per point difference.

You've gotten great info on resales, so I'm not going to repeat that. However, the statement I've highlighted above is one of the many comments made by DVC salespeople that, depending on your outlook, can be characterized anywhere from misleading to a downright lie. It's not an incentive, it's a function of the relationship between use year and calendar year. Read a couple of "use year" threads and you'll get what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48274099)

Honestly, we loved it so much that if we could we would go back again this year. My husbands vacation time doubles next year and we want to spend at least half of his vacation time at Disney. I'd love to buy in if its going to save us money and make our trip more enjoyable.

I'm sorry for the novel, this is just a big decision and we want to make the right choice!

Don't be sorry, be happy that you're taking the time to ask great questions. Here's the deal....salespeople of all kinds try to create a sense of urgency. What you need to realize is that there is no sense of urgency, and that DVC will be there next year, and the year after that should you decide not to buy RIGHT NOW! :) Take the time, do your research, ask questions. And then when you have all the info you need, make the decision that works best for you. But seriously, yours is the best "first" post by a user I have seen in a long time. Good luck with your decision. :)

jel0511 05-02-2013 10:16 AM

One thing here I didn't see mentioned is that when you buy resale, it's more difficult to finance the purchase than it is through DVC. I also think the interest rates are a little higher than DVC. Most people who finance a resale purchase, use a home equity loan for better rates and ease of getting cash. Now, I must put the disclaimer down, that we paid cash for all of our DVC points, direct and resale. In the end, I really don't know how the finance portion works personally, just what I've read here. As noted above, do your homework!!!!

DizBub 05-02-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jel0511 (Post 48276953)
One thing here I didn't see mentioned is that when you buy resale, it's more difficult to finance the purchase than it is through DVC. I also think the interest rates are a little higher than DVC. Most people who finance a resale purchase, use a home equity loan for better rates and ease of getting cash. Now, I must put the disclaimer down, that we paid cash for all of our DVC points, direct and resale. In the end, I really don't know how the finance portion works personally, just what I've read here. As noted above, do your homework!!!!

The main reason it appears that it's more difficult to finance resale is because Disney makes it seem so easy to go through them. They will finance anyone with a pulse as long as they aren't actively going through bankruptcy.

We financed our direct sale because Disney wanted to charge anywhere from 11% to 15% depending on a credit score. We ended up with a 4.24% at home. It can be done.

baronvonshush 05-02-2013 12:36 PM

Thank you for the wealth of valuable information!! We are definitely Disney newbies! It looks like I have a lot of reading to do! Some of the links are working from my iPad so ill have to log in from my pic tonight. As far as planning is concerned, we typically vacation during the off season to get the best rates. However, as the kids get older and it becomes more difficult to take them out of school I am sure that will change.

We have been home from vacation for 4 days and my son is still asking if we can go back to the hotel lol.

Again thank you for the great information.

sleepydog25 05-02-2013 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronvonshush (Post 48278416)
Thank you for the wealth of valuable information!! We are definitely Disney newbies! It looks like I have a lot of reading to do! Some of the links are working from my iPad so ill have to log in from my pic tonight. As far as planning is concerned, we typically vacation during the off season to get the best rates. However, as the kids get older and it becomes more difficult to take them out of school I am sure that will change.

We have been home from vacation for 4 days and my son is still asking if we can go back to the hotel lol.

Again thank you for the great information.

As you do your research, keep in mind the resort your family might like the most. Bay Lake Towers is close to MK. Animal Kingdom Lodge has great possibilities of seeing animals but you are reliant on buses if you don't drive. Each resort has pros and ckns so keep that in mind.


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