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-   -   Should I be interested in DVC? (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3055223)

linkinpaak 01-27-2013 05:27 PM

Should I be interested in DVC?
 
My wife and I fell in love with the Animal Kingdom Lodge and likely intend on vacationing there at least every other year for about a week. From my reading, the Villas and Lodge are very similar except the Lodge generally has some smaller more affordable rooms. Given this, is DVC something we should be interested in? How far in advance do you need to book in order to get a room of your choice in the Animal Kingdom Villas specifically?

Jasonkat 01-27-2013 05:45 PM

Second question first: you can book up to 11 months in advance for your home resort and 7 months for the other resorts. From what I've read on here Animal Kingdom typically isn't too hard to book even just a few months in advance. Bay Lake Tower, Wilderness Lodge, and Beach Club are the resorts that typically fill up first.

In general, DVC is a good deal for someone who:

Will go to WDW at least every other year for the next 15 years, likes to stay in Deluxe accommodations, has the cash to pay up front.

To be specific for your situation: if you want to go every other year for a week in July at AKL and stay in a Savanna view studio you'd need 70 pts (139 pts for a savannah view studio in July). Most of the point blocks for resale are at least 100. Current resale prices are roughly $70, so you would need about 70 X 100 = 7,000 plus about $1,000 for closing and maintenance fees. So if you have $8,000 in cash you can just blow on DVC and you're planning on going to WDW at least every year and staying at a deluxe resort (you won't be forced to go to AKL you could stay at any of the 7) then DVC will make sense for you.

If you don't have the cash, if you don't plan on going to WDW for the next 15 years, then it may make more sense to rent DVC points or to continue to pay cash for the regular AKL rooms.

disneynutz 01-27-2013 06:07 PM

There are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney. Reading through the posts here on the DIS will answer most of your questions.

If DVC was a good fit for everyone, then everyone would own a DVC contract.

:earsboy: Bill

linkinpaak 02-17-2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneynutz (Post 47327286)
There are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney. Reading through the posts here on the DIS will answer most of your questions.

If DVC was a good fit for everyone, then everyone would own a DVC contract.

:earsboy: Bill

I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?

disneynutz 02-17-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpaak (Post 47535108)
I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?

As a cash guest you come an go when you want and Disney wants you back so they are always offering deals, maybe an upgrade, and maybe rooms in better shape compared to DVC.

Disney controls the DVC and does pretty much want they want. They change the rules, point requirements, view categories as they see fit. You are locked into Disney vacations for the time that you own the contract so Disney has little reason to bend over backward to keep you happy. They make all of their money selling new contract at twice the price of a resale contract.

Yes you can add an additional contract to your membership, we own 23 contracts currently at 5 different resorts.

I suggest that you make sure that AKV is where you want to own, we thought that we would love BLT and bought there but it has turned out to be our least favorite. I also suggest that you take the time to understand the UY, banking, and borrowing rules before you purchase.

:earsboy: Bill

Missyrose 02-17-2013 04:45 PM

I would add a couple of things:

1) Make sure you have added your upfront cost for the points in your break-even calculations.

2) Be honest with yourself about savannah view. If you've stayed with that view many times before, you may want to figure out how many more points it would cost to stay in that view on each of your trips. I'd hate for you to have spent all this money only to be X points shy of what you actually wanted each time you go.

3) The biggest differences about DVC villas vs. cash resort rooms are -- a queen and a pullout couch in a studio vs. two queens in the resort room. You won't get daily housekeeping with DVC (though you can add it by paying for it). And DVC tends to book up much farther in advance than the Disney resorts. Last-minute DVC trips often mean booking at four or five months out instead of seven or even 11.

linkinpaak 02-17-2013 05:09 PM

Thank you Bill and Missy. That is extremely helpful information for helping us make this decision!

Kidanifan08 02-17-2013 05:23 PM

It sounds like you are committed to several years of visiting WDW. DVC ownership is a nice way to have more room and luxury amenities. As Missy pointed out, you give up some of the deluxe accommodation niceties, such as daily housekeeping (meaning no daily fresh towels and the bed doesn't get made, unless you do it).

Resale is obviously the most cost effective way of getting into DVC. You can do small add-ons direct after you join, if you desire. Currently, you can add-on as little at 25 points. Keep in mind that they are still actively selling AKV, and with the Grand Floridian Villas soon to be on the market, they may be actively selling AKV for a long time. The current direct cost for AKV is $145, so a 25 point add-on is going to be over $3600. You would be better off saving up and buying a larger contract to begin with if you anticipate wanting more. Plus, the larger contracts can be had for less, and the closing costs are about the same as for the smaller contracts. AKV is fairly easy to get into most of the year, unless you want value or concierge.

Some other important principles of shopping:

- if you don't ever see yourself being able to book in the 7-11 month window, home resort doesn't matter -- buy the best value (SSR).

- make sure you understand the limitations of the Use Year and try to buy something that will work for your travel patterns the majority of the time.

- if you want to stay at an Epcot resort for F&W or the early part of December, you must own there.

- if you want a value or concierge room at AKV, you usually need to own there.

- contract of less than 100 points seem to sell in less than 3 days, and I am guessing that they go for asking price (which is particularly true for BWV and BCV). If you want a small contract, you need to call as soon as you see it listed and you should probably offer asking price, or someone else is going to get it. TTS just sold a loaded 100 pt AKV contract today for $65/pt. It was listed today and gone by 1PM. I know, because I was the third person after the new owner to call about it!

- keep your eye out for "loaded" contracts -- those are the most valuable, but make sure the points will be in your account in time for banking, if necessary.

- choose a home resort that you would be happy staying at if nothing else is available, or if DVC changes the rules. There is nothing worse that paying all of that money and then being stuck at a resort that you don't want to be at.

When you say "Lodge", I assume that you are talking about Jambo House. Don't write off Kidani. There are many really nice things about Kidani, and we personally like it better than Jambo. We love our AKV home and would be completely satisfied if it was the only place that we were able to stay for the next 44 years of Disney trips.

Keep reading and learning. You came to the right place!! Good luck with your decision!

joelp 02-17-2013 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpaak (Post 47326819)
My wife and I fell in love with the Animal Kingdom Lodge and likely intend on vacationing there at least every other year for about a week. From my reading, the Villas and Lodge are very similar except the Lodge generally has some smaller more affordable rooms. Given this, is DVC something we should be interested in? How far in advance do you need to book in order to get a room of your choice in the Animal Kingdom Villas specifically?

You sound like the DW and I (and the DD now, too!!) ... :rotfl:

We also love the Animal Kingdom Lodge/Villas!

Paying $2000+ to stay for a week at AKL vs. using that $$ to buy into DVC ... ?

I ran the numbers pretty much the same way you did ... and we bought a 100 pt (loaded) AKV resale contract this past August ... :cool1:

But also consider this: when I was running the numbers, I was using AKL rack rates for 2012 - when I just checked the 2013 rates, they'd gone up 10% (not 3% - at least for "Jersey Week") - so the potential future "savings" may be larger than I originally thought ...

A word of warning: don't stay in a 1BR Savanna View ... you'll get a bad case of "addonitis"!! :lmao:

linkinpaak 02-17-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidanifan08 (Post 47536244)
When you say "Lodge", I assume that you are talking about Jambo House. Don't write off Kidani. There are many really nice things about Kidani, and we personally like it better than Jambo. We love our AKV home and would be completely satisfied if it was the only place that we were able to stay for the next 44 years of Disney trips.

First off, thanks for the additional advice :) Yes, we were at Jambo House. What is it that you prefer about Kidani? I personally am in love with Boma's breakfast buffet (bread pudding... amazing), and when I'm on vacation I love rolling out of bed in the morning, taking a quick shower, and then eating a huge breakfast... it's just something I don't have time for when working most of the year, so it's just a major thing I look forward to on a vacation. We didn't pay super close attention to the layout but remembered that Kidani and Jambo House were separate stops on the bus ride. I assume it's reasonable walking distance though, no?

ELMC 02-17-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpaak (Post 47535108)
I've done a ton of reading on the forums to the point where my head is about to explode lol. Given that my wife and I currently stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge which is already one of the more pricey hotels at Disney, it seems like we would make back on our "investment" in a reasonable amount of time. I've estimated an $8000 initial cost for resale 100 AKV points after doing my research which further backs Jason's reply. I took $567 in annual dues for the 100 points and then increased that by 3% compounding annually. I did the same with an average week stay at AKL (which is currently about $2000 for a std view week at a 30% off promotion rate) with the same 3% compounding annually. By the 6th year it appears as though you've broken even. Of course you can't necessarily assume the annual dues increase at the same rate as a hotel stay but I was just trying to get some sort of baseline. With similar math at current rental rates, it would take about 12 years to break even renting vs owning. The costs are even higher when looking at savanna view AKL rates (of course with only 100 points I wouldn't be able to vacation as frequently at a savanna view villa vs standard view but I also took into consideration vacationing 2 out of every 3 years instead of every year). I understand if we were generally staying at one of the All Stars resorts and were happy with that then DVC might not make sense because we'd be paying to stay at a more expensive villa but given that we're already frequenting AKL, I'm struggling to find a reason why it doesn't make sense (this is the part that actually has me worried... if something sounds to good to be true then it probably is). Am I missing something? Are there other membership fees in addition to the annual dues?

When you say there are several differences between the DVC and getting a cash room through Disney, what do you mean? Different in terms of how easy it is to get a room? I understand you have to decide further in advance when you want to vacation but my wife and I already fall into that bucket. I also understand that you book through the member services and not through Disney's website or anything like that.

Also, is my understanding correct that if I wanted to add more points to a membership that I can? It seemed that it would be easier to increase points direct; it would be a little more expensive but you wouldn't have to troll the resale markets since smaller point allotments go quickly, correct?

You did some very good things here. You compared to rack rate minus a sizable discount. You accounted for increases. You also compared to the next best option, which is renting DVC points. I would suggest that your numbers are a bit off, but nothing huge. I would assume a $7,000 initial buy in, not $8,000. (Furthermore, if you buy a loaded contract, you can rent out a year's points to offset your initial cost and bring that number down closer to $6,000). I would also assume 4% increases in dues instead of 3%. But all in all, it's a good analysis.

So, if after that it makes sense for you, then you're not missing anything. It's not "too good to be true" as you put it. You have to fork over $7,000 up front, and it's more costly than renting for 10-12 years. That is the downside. If you're ok with that (and most of us are), then you should feel comfortable moving ahead. Good luck! :)

WMorganS 02-17-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelp

A word of warning: don't stay in a 1BR Savanna View ... you'll get a bad case of "addonitis"!! :lmao:

Truth. Happened to us too. Jambo has Boma, but holy crap - we were FLOORED by the 1BR rooms at Kadani.

linkinpaak 02-17-2013 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelp (Post 47537876)
we bought a 100 pt (loaded) AKV resale contract this past August

Have you used it yet? Assuming yes based on your "addonitis" remark lol. Are you enjoying it? Also assuming yes for the same reason as the aforementioned :lmao:

Kidanifan08 02-17-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpaak (Post 47537909)
First off, thanks for the additional advice :) Yes, we were at Jambo House. What is it that you prefer about Kidani? I personally am in love with Boma's breakfast buffet (bread pudding... amazing), and when I'm on vacation I love rolling out of bed in the morning, taking a quick shower, and then eating a huge breakfast... it's just something I don't have time for when working most of the year, so it's just a major thing I look forward to on a vacation. We didn't pay super close attention to the layout but remembered that Kidani and Jambo House were separate stops on the bus ride. I assume it's reasonable walking distance though, no?

We like the small, understated entry and lobby. Jambo is beautiful, but is seems a little cosmopolitan and overwhelming (and busy and noisy). We love the viewing areas near the lobby when we are waiting to head for dinner, but we love our savanna views more. We like Boma as well, but Sanaa is our favorite restaurant at Disney, by far. We love having the extra bathroom in the 1BR and 2BR villas. One of the best things about Kidani is being the first stop for the park busses. The busses are literally empty. Kidani is also the first stop coming back. Some miss having a QS restaurant on site, but that is not a big deal for us. I like the smaller pool area at Kidani -- it seems cozier. I just feel more like a DVC member at Kidani, than a hotel guest. With that said, we totally loved our concierge level stay last summer and hope to do that again soon!

RSWA2 02-18-2013 12:31 AM

You did some very good research, I did the same thing and it came between 6 and 7 years as a break even. I think, you'll find most people on this thread came up with similar numbers using the current resale prices.

There are no other fees other than the annual MF. I do agree with you that it is easier to add on points direct, than through resale, as it would be hard to find a small add on with the same use year. If the same resort and use year is the goal.

I had no luck and good luck on negotiating a resale purchase. I bought a two sub 100 point contracts. One at AKL, which, I couldn't even lower by $1 and one at BCV which I was able to lower by $10. Both I contacted the agents as soon as it was posted. And made an agreement on the price that same day.

You've crunched the numbers correctly, so I think you have it figured out financially correct. My only advice to you, is to sign up for the reseller's mailing list and start browsing their listings daily and have a set price in mind, that way if you get what you want in terms of numbers you can agree over the phone. I didn't see you list a UY preference, but as of July 2012 according to dvcnews.com, AKL has 29% of points in Dec and 10% in June. So if you assume that all people who resell their points are distributed evenly in the points that were sold, you can assume that you'll see 29% of the resales are Dec UY and 10% are June UY. About 19% is still unsold though and probably not allocated. Not sure if that helps, I guess it can in terms of what is available and what isn't.


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