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-   -   Planning to buy into DVC in April (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3039511)

Dr Ken 01-01-2013 01:21 PM

Planning to buy into DVC in April
 
Been studying up on DVC and reading DISboards and others. I've reached a few conclusions. Please let me know if I'm misinformed, misguided or just plain stupid!


TO BUY OR NOT BUY?

From what I've read, it's best if the following are true:
1. Can pay in cash (no financing).
2. Plan to stay in Deluxe level or Villas.
3. Are NOT depending on RCI or other trades.
4. Plan to vacation in WDW at least every other year for at least 10 years.

These are all true for us. Most of the time, we've stayed in Deluxe (GF, WL, BC, and SD). Once in Moderate (CBR) and twice in our RV (FW). Since we're both semi-retired, our financial future is as certain as the economy (which isn't all that stable).


DIRECT OR RESALE?

For our choice of buying direct or resale, I've repeatedly heard "resale". It seems to be a deafening roar on various boards. Except for missing a few perks (which aren't guaranteed) or getting into something very new (like GF), I can't see any good reasons for paying almost double to buy direct.


NUMBER OF POINTS?

As for the number of points to buy, it seems that this should based on your typical annual plans. We've decided that for us, we have two goals: (1) the two of us in a 1-bedroom during the off-season. (2) And occasionally, we'd like a 2-bedroom or grand-villa and invite our kids and (eventually) their kids, which might need to be during a school vacation.

So, we'll looking to buy enough points for an annual 6-nights in a 1-bedroom off-season but also enough points that we could occasionally get a 5-night grand-villa during high-season by combining three year's worth of points.

As an aside, it seems that getting two 2-bedroom suites is usually less than one grand-villa and sleeps more, giving us another option.


WHICH RESORT?

That leaves us with only one remaining decision to make: which resort?

From what I've read, that only applies to the 11-month reservation window. For the two of us, we're not particularly fussy about the dates and we don't mind splitting our stay between two or even three resorts. So, the "which resort" question comes down to where we'd like to have our grand gatherings.

So, our plan is to visit each of the villas during our next WDW stay (in April) and buy (resale) at whichever villa seems best for our grand gatherings.

Does this make sense?

disneynutz 01-01-2013 02:32 PM

UY needs to be considered and after years of ownership, we have learned at least for us, home resort choice is important.

As we get older we want things our way and don't like the idea of competing with others to get our favorite resort(s) so we bought at our favorites other than BLT. Disney is changing and growing every day. Availability in the past won't be the same in the future as thousands of owners are added all wanting to book the popular resorts at 7 months.

You will probably spend less time in the parks as time goes on so there is another reason to find your favorite resort.

DVC is at the deluxe resorts but the rooms are not maintained the same as the cash rooms. A little more wear and tear and some maintenance issues.

:earsboy: Bill

Dr Ken 01-01-2013 02:56 PM

Can you explain why UY is important (or point me to someplace that explains it)?

I understand that there's a huge advance notice limitation on when I'll be banking points. And, of course, in the first year it matters.

But what else does UY affect when buying resale?

Sandisw 01-01-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Ken (Post 47048291)
Can you explain why UY is important (or point me to someplace that explains it)?

I understand that there's a huge advance notice limitation on when I'll be banking points. And, of course, in the first year it matters.

But what else does UY affect when buying resale?

When you have a UY that falls right before your typical travel, you have a lot more flexibility in what you can do if you have to cancel or want to change a trip.

If you have a trip booked with borrowed points, it gives you a lot of time to reschedule since borrowed points can't be returned to their original UY. If you want to reschedule a trip, it gives you a longer period of time or gives you a chance to bank points.

We are summer travelers and got a June UY so that our August trips were at the beginning. If I ever had to cancel or change that trip, I would have a lot of time to do it.

If you don't have a typical travel time, then UY becomes less important. When we bought in 2009, traveling during Memorial Day weekend wasn't something we did. However, things have changed and we are now going to be finding ourselves going yearly at this time. Having a June UY for end of May travel is not ideal.

Luckily, we bought a BWV contract in 2011 that is a Dec UY so I have points to use so I don't have to worry about it. But, if we didn't, I'd probably think twice about traveling at that May time with points that would expire in only a few days.

disneynutz 01-01-2013 03:33 PM

We enjoy the cooler months at WDW. Our UY is Oct and we travel October through May. October - May is our also banking period should we want to cancel and bank our points to keep them from being forfeited. This has happened a couple of times with a death in the family and a forced job relocation. Many will post that UY doesn't matter but IMO the correct UY is added insurance that doesn't cost anything so why not use it to your advantage if you can.

Each contract has it own UY so you need to decide if UY is important and then start looking for those contracts. Disney assigns UYs to the contracts when the contract was first sold, it never changes for the life of the contract. Historically Disney for reasons known only to them, has assigned some UYs more than others. An example was BLT where Disney sold February contracts for months and months which created more February contracts at BLT than any other month.

:earsboy: Bill

myxdvz 01-01-2013 03:37 PM

I am one of those buyer who got "suckered" into buying direct :) I didn't get into DIS until after the purchase and know nothing about the resale market. I'm not even sure if BLT was already available in the resale market when we bought since it was the latest DVC out. However, we have never regretted our purchase.

Less than a year into our purchase, I learned that UY is very important. We have an April UY and I am guessing our guide gave us this because we purchased in May and with kids, he assumed we would be travelling in the early summer. I do remember saying we will never travel in July/Aug timeframe because it would too hot.

After learning more about DVC and my kids school calendar (she wasn't in school yet when we purchased). It looked like we would be travelling Jan, Feb, March to take advantage of the lower DVC points required and the school holidays. I then realized we had a BAD UY for that travel plan.

When I was looking for add-ons, everybody was recommending to get the same UY for ease of management. But because of our experience with our April UY, and our history of travel... I chose to get a different UY (October) so that I will not have the risk I have today with our Fall to Spring Break travel.

So yes, UY is important :)

Dean 01-01-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Ken (Post 47047342)
Been studying up on DVC and reading DISboards and others. I've reached a few conclusions. Please let me know if I'm misinformed, misguided or just plain stupid!


TO BUY OR NOT BUY?

From what I've read, it's best if the following are true:
1. Can pay in cash (no financing).
2. Plan to stay in Deluxe level or Villas.
3. Are NOT depending on RCI or other trades.
4. Plan to vacation in WDW at least every other year for at least 10 years.

These are all true for us. Most of the time, we've stayed in Deluxe (GF, WL, BC, and SD). Once in Moderate (CBR) and twice in our RV (FW). Since we're both semi-retired, our financial future is as certain as the economy (which isn't all that stable).


DIRECT OR RESALE?

For our choice of buying direct or resale, I've repeatedly heard "resale". It seems to be a deafening roar on various boards. Except for missing a few perks (which aren't guaranteed) or getting into something very new (like GF), I can't see any good reasons for paying almost double to buy direct.


NUMBER OF POINTS?

As for the number of points to buy, it seems that this should based on your typical annual plans. We've decided that for us, we have two goals: (1) the two of us in a 1-bedroom during the off-season. (2) And occasionally, we'd like a 2-bedroom or grand-villa and invite our kids and (eventually) their kids, which might need to be during a school vacation.

So, we'll looking to buy enough points for an annual 6-nights in a 1-bedroom off-season but also enough points that we could occasionally get a 5-night grand-villa during high-season by combining three year's worth of points.

As an aside, it seems that getting two 2-bedroom suites is usually less than one grand-villa and sleeps more, giving us another option.


WHICH RESORT?

That leaves us with only one remaining decision to make: which resort?

From what I've read, that only applies to the 11-month reservation window. For the two of us, we're not particularly fussy about the dates and we don't mind splitting our stay between two or even three resorts. So, the "which resort" question comes down to where we'd like to have our grand gatherings.

So, our plan is to visit each of the villas during our next WDW stay (in April) and buy (resale) at whichever villa seems best for our grand gatherings.

Does this make sense?

With the couple of caveat's below, I'd say you've thought this through appropriately, are making a good decision and it seems DVC would give you more for less. Likely not cheaper but more value for around the same money. You still need to plan ahead. As for home resort, that may be important for your situation if you want to have larger groups. Generally a GV won't be the same as two 2BR units but it will be about the same as a 2 BR and a 1 BR or a 2 BR plus 2 studios. If you do want a GV, you'll likely need the 11 month priority. From your post it seems that SSR or OKW would be the best options if you decide to buy with AKV in third. BCV and VWL don't have GV and BWV only has 7. As for number of points, I'd decide what you need for the 1 BR trips and look at a 10-20% cushion since reallocations could get you looking at less than a week AND off season. I wouldn't be afraid to buy a few less or more as the right contract otherwise comes along. It sounds like you'll need around 200 points for the yearly 6 night 1BR plus another 100-150 points for a GV (or equivalent) every 3 years assuming you'll make both trips on those years. So roughly 350 points. You could get by with 300 if you do a 2 BR plus a studio and do OKW most trips and a little less if you forego your off season trip on the years of the group trip. I don't know the makeup of the larger group but it's very possible you'd do this more than less. If you select a loaded contract, you could easily buy 25-50 less points than you think you need every 3 yrs and make do for several years with the plan you've laid out.

Dean 01-01-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myxdvz (Post 47048690)
I am one of those buyer who got "suckered" into buying direct :) I didn't get into DIS until after the purchase and know nothing about the resale market. I'm not even sure if BLT was already available in the resale market when we bought since it was the latest DVC out. However, we have never regretted our purchase.

Less than a year into our purchase, I learned that UY is very important. We have an April UY and I am guessing our guide gave us this because we purchased in May and with kids, he assumed we would be travelling in the early summer. I do remember saying we will never travel in July/Aug timeframe because it would too hot.

After learning more about DVC and my kids school calendar (she wasn't in school yet when we purchased). It looked like we would be travelling Jan, Feb, March to take advantage of the lower DVC points required and the school holidays. I then realized we had a BAD UY for that travel plan.

When I was looking for add-ons, everybody was recommending to get the same UY for ease of management. But because of our experience with our April UY, and our history of travel... I chose to get a different UY (October) so that I will not have the risk I have today with our Fall to Spring Break travel.

So yes, UY is important :)

The reality is that this is true of MOST people who buy a timeshare. It can be far worse if you buy something you could have had for pennies on the dollar and that's all it's worth once you buy. The best thing once you're "stuck with it" is to simply learn the system and use it to your advantage. That's why there's a huge difference when we discuss those that already own and their options vs those who have cancelation rights or have not yet purchased.

JimMIA 01-01-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Ken (Post 47047342)
From what I've read, that only applies to the 11-month reservation window.

Actually resort is important in two ways. The first is the booking window.

The other is the maintenance fees, which DVC calls "annual dues." There is quite a spread in annual dues from resort to resort, and over the longer term your dues will exceed your initial buyin cost.

Quote:

So, our plan is to visit each of the villas during our next WDW stay (in April) and buy (resale) at whichever villa seems best for our grand gatherings.

Does this make sense?
Um, yes...pretty much.

The caveat I would offer is NOT to purchase at any resort where you'd be disappointed staying if you couldn't get something else at seven months. Especially where you'd be disappointed staying with a large group.

One of the considerations for a large group is the number of Grand Villas in the resort. If a resort only has a handful, obviously your odds of getting one - even with the 11 month booking advantage - get much more difficlut.

JimMIA 01-01-2013 05:55 PM

At the top of the list of threads, click on DVC Resources. That will give you a TON of info on the resorts, number of villas, annual dues, etc, etc.

Dr Ken 01-01-2013 07:41 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I see where the UY dates would make a difference. Since we usually travel in the Winter or Spring, it would be much safer to have a Fall UY.

You've confirmed my suspicions that getting our home resort to be where we would be happy holding our grand gatherings would might the most sense. We should be able to figure that out when we visit each one in April.

I'm most likely to under-buy (100-150 points) at first. When (and if) we decide how many more points we really want, we can wait for the right resale offer to appear. Getting access to the reservations information and actually living in a 1-BR for a week will tell us stuff than we can't learn on-line.

Dean 01-01-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Ken (Post 47051178)
Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I see where the UY dates would make a difference. Since we usually travel in the Winter or Spring, it would be much safer to have a Fall UY.

You've confirmed my suspicions that getting our home resort to be where we would be happy holding our grand gatherings would might the most sense. We should be able to figure that out when we visit each one in April.

I'm most likely to under-buy (100-150 points) at first. When (and if) we decide how many more points we really want, we can wait for the right resale offer to appear. Getting access to the reservations information and actually living in a 1-BR for a week will tell us stuff than we can't learn on-line.

That amount of points will get you about a 1BR EOY to 2 out of 3 years. If you decide to buy less points now and more later, that gives you the chance at 2 different home resorts. It also increases your costs by around $10 a point of the total if you get the amount to hit your plan above plus closing, roughly an extra $3500 assuming all the same resort. Though if you go with some at a cheaper resort and some at higher, that will cut your costs somewhat. I'm generally in favor of underbuying both in resort and # of points but in your case I think I'd split the difference and go for 180-250 or so depending on the contract. Let us know how it goes.

zavandor 01-02-2013 02:10 AM

If you underbuy points, you would have another option: transfering points. If you need to book a GV, it should not be a problem to find a member on the rental board willing to transfer you a large number of points. Since a member is allowed to do only one transfer per year, it may be difficult to find someone willing to transfer 50 or less points, but I've seen many willing to transfer hundreds of points.
So you may buy now a contract just for your 1Br, and transfer points for the big reunions. This has also the advantage that you can try different resorts for the reunion, since planning ahead you can have the points transfered before the 11 months windows. However it requires planning way in advance.
The biggest advantage is that you are not locked to visit exactly every three year. If one member of your family has a problem to travel exactly every three year, you may have problem to reschedule the trip, due to banked points. You might end doing extra trips to not waste those points.
However if you are sure that you'll need a GV every three year, purchasing the points is cheaper in the long run.

Dr Ken 01-02-2013 07:33 PM

Is "transferring" the same as "renting" points?

I was wondering what the rules are for reserving when you don't yet have enough points.

For example, if I owned 160 points at BLT but currently had no points available, could I confirm a GV at BLT for 800 points?

The assumption is that I would get this UY points, borrow next year's UY, and that i had the remaining points at another DVC resort or would buy or rent the extra points before arrival.

ELMC 01-02-2013 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Ken
Is "transferring" the same as "renting" points?

I was wondering what the rules are for reserving when you don't yet have enough points.

For example, if I owned 160 points at BLT but currently had no points available, could I confirm a GV at BLT for 800 points?

The assumption is that I would get this UY points, borrow next year's UY, and that i had the remaining points at another DVC resort or would buy or rent the extra points before arrival.

Transferring and renting are two different things. Transferring involves the transfer of points to your account where you essentially become the "owner" of this points, which maintain their home resort and UY. Renting occurs when you pay another owner to make a reservation in your name. The points technically still belong to that owner and they maintain control of the reservation.

As far as reservations go, you must have the points at the time you make your reservation and they must be available for use to you at the time of your stay. When using your own points from the next use year, this is very simple because the points are already in your account. If you owned a 160 point contract, the reservation you asked about would require you to obtain a transfer of 320 points from another owner prior to your making the reservation. And, because you are looking for a GV at BLT, you would most likely need them to be BLT points so that you could make the reservation at the 11 month window. Using points from another resort would only allow you to make the reservation at the 7 month window and there is no real way for you to "buy" the extra points you would need in this case.


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