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-   -   Direct purchase & included points, etc? (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3024878)

bcarpenter 11-23-2012 04:31 PM

Direct purchase & included points, etc?
 
Hi,

Just my second post to Disboards... we're looking into buying into DVC & weighing up the options of resale vs direct. The difference in price & hassle between the two isn't that much since a resale purchase will have to be done by remote from overseas (along with its hassle, delays, insecurities, etc), whereas direct purchase can be done more or less immediately when we visit the USA anyway. However, being from out-of-USA, Disney won't talk to me directly because it's a legal real estate purchase, not in their geographical jurisdiction, etc etc etc. Even simple things like price per point they won't reveal, so thank you to those who run alternative sites that give that information. One answer I haven't been able to find is to this question:

If we buy 160 points direct from Disney in February 2013 with, say, a use year of June, how many points are included in our purchase & what dues do we have to pay? ie, I can think of three scenarios but am unsure which applies:

1. We get 160 points in Feb 2013 which expire in June 2013, then another 160 points in June 2013?
2. We get 160 points in Feb 2013 which expire in June 2014, but our next instalment of points is not until June 2014?
3. We get no points in Feb 2013, but we get 160 points in June 2013?

Presumedly, there are no 2013 annual dues with my scenarios above if we buy direct in Feb 2013.

However, does the situation change if we were to buy in, eg. November or December 2013, as far as 2014 annual dues are concerned?

Thank you!

zavandor 11-23-2012 05:09 PM

The first one is the right one.
You always get current use year point when purchasing throught Disney, even if the UY is near the end.
They will allow you to bank that points even if you are over the banking deadline.

CarolMN 11-23-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46772537)
Hi,

Just my second post to Disboards... we're looking into buying into DVC & weighing up the options of resale vs direct. The difference in price & hassle between the two isn't that much since a resale purchase will have to be done by remote from overseas (along with its hassle, delays, insecurities, etc), whereas direct purchase can be done more or less immediately when we visit the USA anyway. However, being from out-of-USA, Disney won't talk to me directly because it's a legal real estate purchase, not in their geographical jurisdiction, etc etc etc. Even simple things like price per point they won't reveal, so thank you to those who run alternative sites that give that information. One answer I haven't been able to find is to this question:

If we buy 160 points direct from Disney in February 2013 with, say, a use year of June, how many points are included in our purchase & what dues do we have to pay? ie, I can think of three scenarios but am unsure which applies:

1. We get 160 points in Feb 2013 which expire in June 2013, then another 160 points in June 2013?
2. We get 160 points in Feb 2013 which expire in June 2014, but our next instalment of points is not until June 2014?
3. We get no points in Feb 2013, but we get 160 points in June 2013?

Welcome to the DIS DVC Boards!

Scenario #1 is most correct. However, Disney will allow you to bank the initial 160 points (which are really the points from 2012) one use year ahead, to the 2013 use year. The banked points then expire 5/31/2014.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46772537)
Presumedly, there are no 2013 annual dues with my scenarios above if we buy direct in Feb 2013.

However, does the situation change if we were to buy in, eg. November or December 2013, as far as 2014 annual dues are concerned?

Thank you!

Annual dues are based on calendar year, not use year. You would pay prorated dues for calendar year 2013. The dues would be billed based on the date you sign the purchase agreement.

Good luck with your decision.

DizBub 11-23-2012 05:11 PM

Welcome!!

I can only tell you of our experience. We bought Direct from Disney (210 points) in late September of 2009. We got all 2009 points, (that we banked) but the dues were prorated so we only owed them for the last 3 months of the year. Our Use Year is February and we got new points in Feb 2010. Essentially we had 420 points available to use immediately.

When we added 100 points 14 months later and the same thing happened. We got 100 2010 points that we were allowed to bank and owed 1 month dues for the year. Those points along with all 2011 points were available immediately.

Not certain how they do it these days. I know that when we bought from Disney they did not charge closing costs but they do now, although I've heard it's minimal.

Good luck!!

Cruznmore 11-23-2012 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DizBub (Post 46772731)
Welcome!!

I can only tell you of our experience. We bought Direct from Disney (210 points) in late September of 2009. We got all 2009 points, (that we banked) but the dues were prorated so we only owed them for the last 3 months of the year. Our Use Year is February and we got new points in Feb 2010. Essentially we had 420 points available to use immediately.

When we added 100 points 14 months later and the same thing happened. We got 100 2010 points that we were allowed to bank and owed 1 month dues for the year. Those points along with all 2011 points were available immediately.

Not certain how they do it these days. I know that when we bought from Disney they did not charge closing costs but they do now, although I've heard it's minimal.

Good luck!!

We have been talking do Disney direct as well. One of the things our guide told me was that we would get and extra year's allotment of points that would expire in 6 months. So you may end up with 2 years worth plus the next allotment on your use year date.

Even with that, the costs end up about twice as much as buying resale, so I would definitely look at the resale market, even with the hassle of being overseas.

bcarpenter 11-23-2012 08:39 PM

Thanks for all the answers. Sounds like even though dues are based on calendar years, it doesn't really matter when in the year the contract is bought as the dues will be pro rated anyway. Sounds like it's more important when the contract is bought relative to the use year (buy in May with June use year = effective doubling of first year's points without extra cost; buy in July with June use year = no doubling of points).

The reason why we're looking at direct is that from what I gather, we'd expect to pay $95/point for Grand Californian, plus about $3/point for closing costs, plus annual dues x 2 if bought in Feb 2013 with some 2012 points left over, for use year June. If we buy direct at the same time, then it's $120/point, plus closing costs, plus pro rated dues x 1... and this includes the extra first year's points coming in June.

The difference in my example is $20/point. That's resale of $95 + $3 + $4.5 + $4.5 = $107. And direct $120 + $3 + $4.2 = $127.20.

Is my math right? My assumption of Disney $120/point is from another website, not direct information from Disney. And I'm assuming there's no tax when buying directly from Disney either?

DizBub 11-23-2012 08:56 PM

This is from DVCNews.com. Current pricing and it's usually accurate.

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-pro...g-a-promotions

Hope this helps.

dvcterry 11-23-2012 09:09 PM

I'm not sure where you are getting your pricing. Current direct prices are upwards of $115 per point-to$165 per point. Prices are due to increase on December 19. The current promotions may not be in effect by the time you planned on your February visit, but this link will give you some ideas on the pricing and incentives:

http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc...ntives-updated

Also, the Grand Californian Villas are highly coveted. There is a very long wait list for direct buyers. Not to discourage you, but just for your consideration if this is the home resort you would like, then perhaps look into a resale purchase as an option.

Good luck to you.

bcarpenter 11-23-2012 10:08 PM

Ah, the waitlist. I hadn't factored that into consideration. If there's a waitlist, does that mean that I can't actually sign up while in the USA, since all I can do is get placed on a waitlist then do the paperwork when we get to the top, by which time we won't be in the States & therefore can't buy into DVC direct anyway? Any idea how long the waitlist is for VGF? (We would want to book our first DVC trip in May 2013 for a December travel date.)

Sounds like resale is the way to go. Back to the Excel spreadsheet...

Dean 11-24-2012 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46773896)
Thanks for all the answers. Sounds like even though dues are based on calendar years, it doesn't really matter when in the year the contract is bought as the dues will be pro rated anyway. Sounds like it's more important when the contract is bought relative to the use year (buy in May with June use year = effective doubling of first year's points without extra cost; buy in July with June use year = no doubling of points).

The reason why we're looking at direct is that from what I gather, we'd expect to pay $95/point for Grand Californian, plus about $3/point for closing costs, plus annual dues x 2 if bought in Feb 2013 with some 2012 points left over, for use year June. If we buy direct at the same time, then it's $120/point, plus closing costs, plus pro rated dues x 1... and this includes the extra first year's points coming in June.

The difference in my example is $20/point. That's resale of $95 + $3 + $4.5 + $4.5 = $107. And direct $120 + $3 + $4.2 = $127.20.

Is my math right? My assumption of Disney $120/point is from another website, not direct information from Disney. And I'm assuming there's no tax when buying directly from Disney either?

Dues for retail are counted in relationship to when you sign the contract as Carol said, assuming you get points from the start. If you sign 1 Feb, you'll pay 11/12 of the dues for the year no matter the UY. GCV is an example of where the difference is less but still significant. I think the savings of resale are still worth it. Would you be using your points almost exclusively in CA? The other option that comes up for resale is that it may be possible to buy less than 160 points if you don't need that many.

It seems you're under the impression you'll get more points buying retail, this is not automatically so. Some resales come with as many or more points than a retail does though the price may be a little higher than a contract with less points.

There's no reason you can't pursue both. I'd get with DVC when you come to the states but pursue the resale in the interim and afterwards even if on a WL. I think you'll have to return to an area where Disney can sell to sign the papers if you wait list for a retail purchase.

bcarpenter 11-24-2012 05:48 AM

Hi Dean, thanks for the reply. I'm after the same number of points contract with retail or resale, but I am under the impression that, played correctly, retail will double the first year's available points without increasing dues beyond the prorated amount, whereas a similar situation on the resale market usually comes with a stipulation that the entire previous and current year's dues should be reimbursed.

Dean 11-24-2012 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46775321)
Hi Dean, thanks for the reply. I'm after the same number of points contract with retail or resale, but I am under the impression that, played correctly, retail will double the first year's available points without increasing dues beyond the prorated amount, whereas a similar situation on the resale market usually comes with a stipulation that the entire previous and current year's dues should be reimbursed.

I think you're under an incorrect assumption. There are 2 issues, that of what points you get and then what dues you have to pay. It's not uncommon to get as many or more points resale than you get retail. Someone just posted a contract they were looking at that had all of the previous UY points banked to the current UY and all of the current UY banked to the next UY. In that case you're actually getting a full years more points than retail. Of course there can be restrictions resale such as not being able to bank points due to the fact they're banked or borrowed or you're past the banking window.

I think too many people get hung up on the issue of how many points they're getting in relationship to the size of the contract. While I'd agree it's often a better deal when you get a loaded contract, it's the deal and not the number of points that are available that determines reasonableness. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a stripped contract if the price was right and a loaded contract is only a good deal at the right price. It's pretty easy to adjust value between one contract and another in this situation even adjusting for different UY, number of points as well as assigning value to points that are available or reducing value for points that are gone.

My view is that you assume a neutral position which means all points available for the current and future UY and that the points are bankable when you're done (or banked prior to closing). You deduct $5 a point for any point missing in that scenario PLUS you account for the fees you'll be paying. I usually just round it off to $10 a point for any point YOU will pay dues on. That means any dues you will reimburse the seller AND any dues you'll pay double on when you pay the next Jan. Remember DVC dues are on a calendar year basis. Say you had a July UY, the dues paid this coming Jan are for 6 months of the 2012 points and 6 months of the 2013 points. So if you bought now with all 2012 & 2013 points and reimbursed for the entire 2012 dues, you just overpaid by 6 months of dues.

The reality is that most resellers don't charge you dues accurately related to the above (though it's all negotiable) but rather take the incorrect stance that you get the dues, you pay the fees. Even then it's unusual they'll ask you to pay dues backwards for banked points that have limitations. Ultimately you just need to know what's happening and how to compare different contracts. That way you can easily look at a given contract and arrive at it's value based on your judgement of price per point for that given home resort.

dvcterry 11-24-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46774349)
Ah, the waitlist. I hadn't factored that into consideration. If there's a waitlist, does that mean that I can't actually sign up while in the USA, since all I can do is get placed on a waitlist then do the paperwork when we get to the top, by which time we won't be in the States & therefore can't buy into DVC direct anyway? Any idea how long the waitlist is for VGF? (We would want to book our first DVC trip in May 2013 for a December travel date.)

Sounds like resale is the way to go. Back to the Excel spreadsheet...

It was about 4 pages in length the last I heard. I know there is an extensive waitlist. The other factor to consider is when a resort sells out it sells out in Use Years, not all at once. The same holds true for DVC direct purchase. They may aquire a certain amount of points per Use Year. In other words, if you are looking for a specific Use Year, they may also not have points for VGC, nor the number of points you are looking to buy.

Deb & Bill 11-24-2012 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcarpenter (Post 46774349)
Ah, the waitlist. I hadn't factored that into consideration. If there's a waitlist, does that mean that I can't actually sign up while in the USA, since all I can do is get placed on a waitlist then do the paperwork when we get to the top, by which time we won't be in the States & therefore can't buy into DVC direct anyway? Any idea how long the waitlist is for VGF? (We would want to book our first DVC trip in May 2013 for a December travel date.)

Sounds like resale is the way to go. Back to the Excel spreadsheet...

If you are looking to buy and stay at Grand Californian Villas, you will not get Dec 2013 by booking in May 2013. You need the 11 month headstart.

Grand Floridian Villas (what you are calling VGF??) aren't even selling yet. Probably not until sometime next summer.

But if you want the villa at DL, you really need to buy there.

DannysMom 11-24-2012 09:51 AM

I just wanted to agree with the posters who have told the OP in resale EVERYTHING is negotiable. This past summer (2012) I purchased resale. I got a Feb UY contract, with 60 banked 2011 points (that would expire 1/31/13 if not used) all 2012 points (that I asked the seller to bank, since I was not sure that the deal would be closed by the banking deadline) and all points going forward. My initial offer was accepted and I was not asked to reimburse ANY dues on the 2012 points. My first dues on the contract will be coming due in January 2013.

So, while it might take some work and a whole lot of patience, buying resale could be worth it, if you find a seller willing to accept your terms. If you are only interested in GCV, you might be well served buying whenever you see a suitable contract, either resale or direct, as it seems there are only a very limited number of GCV contracts available. Good luck.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!


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