Is "Walking a reservation" unethical?

beer dave · Nov 25, 2015

I think it is much more likely that the majority of time that is consumed at MS is due to the people who are not "up to snuff" on their DVC purchase, and need MS to help them muddle through all the ins and outs of making their reservations, banking their points, etc...... not having their number ready....... The knowledgeable owner will most likely be prepared and whip through the changes needed with very limited time. Maybe it should be a bigger concern about the uneducated owners taking up all of MS time than the occasional walking call. And Pete--- nice analysis--- Math doesn't lie.

Dean · Nov 25, 2015

beer dave said:
I think it is much more likely that the majority of time that is consumed at MS is due to the people who are not "up to snuff" on their DVC purchase, and need MS to help them muddle through all the ins and outs of making their reservations, banking their points, etc...... not having their number ready....... The knowledgeable owner will most likely be prepared and whip through the changes needed with very limited time. Maybe it should be a bigger concern about the uneducated owners taking up all of MS time than the occasional walking call. And Pete--- nice analysis--- Math doesn't lie.

I think the % of people that aren't informed with DVC today is fairly low. Some are more informed than others but it's not like it was 15-20 years ago.

The other issue I was thinking was that the ability to do cancelations online would go a long way toward fixing this issue and likely create a cancelation/rebooking situation by default.

DebbieB · Nov 25, 2015

skier_pete said:
You are again presuming that MS sees walking as a problem. I don't really think they do. What percent of calls involve walking? Less than 1 % right? I would say less than 1 % of reservations involve walking.

I am not sure I foresee a reallocation of points happening. There are FIVE point season:
- Tops will always be Chritmas and New Years (Premiere season)
- Summer, Holidays and Spring Break (Late-February to mid-April) would remain second most popular (Magic Season)
- The Spring/Summer shoulder time (early Feb, May and early June) are third (Dream Season)
- The fall except the first two weeks of December and a few days at Thanksgiving (Choice Season)
- Those first two weeks of December fall in the least popular category with Sept and Jan (Adventure season)

I think it is kind of out of whack. I've never had a problem getting a non-home resort reservation for late April/May at 7 months, yet that is dream season with higher points. I even once got a BWV standard view, we waited because we were combining my points and a BCV owner friend's points. I got a VGF studio last year, got Poly for next year. A friend even got an AKV club 1 bedroom at 7 months in late June, 4 nights, a few years ago for a birthday weekend group trip. I typically do late April/May and then October or early December. So hopefully if there is a reallocation it would balance out for me. I know on the last reallocation, both times went up for me because I usually go Saturday or Sunday to Friday. The weekday nights going up hurt me.

MJ6987 said:
By the way, if people are saying that it's "within the rules", do any of you openly tell MS what you are doing when you call up?

Of course they know when they start seeing a pattern. Under the old system that went by checkout date, I used to do the day by day calls, I was open about it, they would note my final checkout day.

VrBchJ · Nov 26, 2015

I've never walked a reservation but I'm beginning to understand why people do it. I want BWV std studio using my BWV points and I've gotten on the last four mornings at exactly
8 AM and it's not available. I'm pretty flexible with my dates so I'll keep trying every morning. I had a little trouble last year getting std view but nothing like this.

crisi · Nov 26, 2015

VrBchJ said:
I've never walked a reservation but I'm beginning to understand why people do it. I want BWV std studio using my BWV points and I've gotten on the last four mornings at exactly
8 AM and it's not available. I'm pretty flexible with my dates so I'll keep trying every morning. I had a little trouble last year getting std view but nothing like this.

Try for your original dates on day eight, you might start to see it open up as walkers walk their reservation forward.

VrBchJ · Nov 26, 2015

I've tried that no dice.

beer dave · Nov 26, 2015

Not everyone is booking a week... so it could be any number of days till a "walker" moves by..... however, the current 11 month dates are probably the dates people are walking to.....

beer dave · Nov 26, 2015

Dean said:
I think the % of people that aren't informed with DVC today is fairly low. Some are more informed than others but it's not like it was 15-20 years ago.

The other issue I was thinking was that the ability to do cancelations online would go a long way toward fixing this issue and likely create a cancelation/rebooking situation by default.

You're probably right-- 15 years ago I had little idea what I was doing.... but it's been more than once recently that I have called in with my laundry list of 7 month re bookings, point re allocations, banks and borrows, and the agent comments on how they are surprised at my understanding of the system...

supersnoop · Nov 26, 2015

VrBchJ said:
I've never walked a reservation but I'm beginning to understand why people do it. I want BWV std studio using my BWV points and I've gotten on the last four mornings at exactly
8 AM and it's not available. I'm pretty flexible with my dates so I'll keep trying every morning. I had a little trouble last year getting std view but nothing like this.

Waitlist two days at a time. Once I was finally able to actually get a BWV reservation, I wait listed the one day I was missing, and it came through three days later. So, that was 180-4.

zavandor · Nov 26, 2015

Is walking the new "Evil"? For some time we could read here people accusing renters of stealing reservations from owners. Now many point the finger to walking. Simply, some room categories are very difficult to get some weeks and a lot of people are disappointed. This is and will remain true even if DVC gets rid of walkers. If it's not people walking, it will be people booking exactly at 8:00 am. There are too few rooms is some category to make everyone happy.

Someone a few posts ago had an excellent point: at older resorts the percentage of people who own because they want to stay there and book at 11 months is increasing over time. This means that at 11 months competition is growing and growing.

Dean · Nov 26, 2015

zavandor said:
Someone a few posts ago had an excellent point: at older resorts the percentage of people who own because they want to stay there and book at 11 months is increasing over time. This means that at 11 months competition is growing and growing.

I think there are a number of reasons why the competition at or near 11 months has become more intense. One is that members as a whole are more informed, another was the effect of SSR on the system. From what I've seen SSR had effect all the way back to the 11 month window for this reason. Members that were fairly lax booking their home resort at or after the 7 months had to react. That reaction impacted owners who were reserving at 8-9 months and so on.

skier_pete · Nov 27, 2015

nkosiek said:
I'm not so sure that the Summer is as high a season for DVC as many think. From what I've gathered in my 4 years as an owner is that there is still plenty of inventory during the summer up to 2-3 months out, and sometimes even closer. If they wanted to mess around with the points, they could move Summer to Magic and get rid of the shoulder season, moving some of the fall/early winter up seasons. Obviously this would depend on if DVC/DVD really sees an issue but I'm not sure they do.

Summer isn't a high season for DVC - but it is for Disney. The idea of redistributing points doesn't work - IMO, because if you bring a different season to be the low point season, then DVC travelers will rearrange their plans so THAT is the most popular season. I mean this isn't 100% true, but I bet if you raised the points for fall / early December and lowered it for May, then more people would shift their trips to May. I COULD foresee they may do this at some point, but what is really the motivation? The motivation for shifting points would be if they can't get to people to travel at that certain time of year. The reason the points are high in the summer is that even though it isn't the highest demand DVC time, its high enough, AND its a popular time of year. Shifting point away from summer wouldn't benefit Disney in any way.

ziravan · Nov 27, 2015

skier_pete said:
Summer isn't a high season for DVC - but it is for Disney. The idea of redistributing points doesn't work - IMO, because if you bring a different season to be the low point season, then DVC travelers will rearrange their plans so THAT is the most popular season. I mean this isn't 100% true, but I bet if you raised the points for fall / early December and lowered it for May, then more people would shift their trips to May. I COULD foresee they may do this at some point, but what is really the motivation? The motivation for shifting points would be if they can't get to people to travel at that certain time of year. The reason the points are high in the summer is that even though it isn't the highest demand DVC time, its high enough, AND its a popular time of year. Shifting point away from summer wouldn't benefit Disney in any way.

The reason they would reallocate Fall is the same reason they reallocated weekends.

It wouldn't be to suit Disney's needs, but to make ownership easier.

In both cases (Fall and the old weekend points layout), DVC was trying to induce certain behavior from owners and in both cases, they were over-successful.

There was a huge mismatch in demand between weekend and weekday as a result. And, as a result of that mismatch, DVC made a change.

There is s huge mismatch in Fall use. Those times are very undervalued, point wise. I think DVC will eventually address it.

Funny thing, people are creatures of habit. I think as time goes on, more people are buying home resorts to take advantage of the 11 month window for Fall. Even if DVC reallocates, I'd still expect Oct-Dec to be "DVC busy season".

Dean · Nov 27, 2015

ziravan said:
The reason they would reallocate Fall is the same reason they reallocated weekends.

It wouldn't be to suit Disney's needs, but to make ownership easier.

In both cases (Fall and the old weekend points layout), DVC was trying to induce certain behavior from owners and in both cases, they were over-successful.

There was a huge mismatch in demand between weekend and weekday as a result. And, as a result of that mismatch, DVC made a change.

There is s huge mismatch in Fall use. Those times are very undervalued, point wise. I think DVC will eventually address it.

Funny thing, people are creatures of habit. I think as time goes on, more people are buying home resorts to take advantage of the 11 month window for Fall. Even if DVC reallocates, I'd still expect Oct-Dec to be "DVC busy season".

If the demand is too far off they have an obligation to reallocate.

supersnoop · Nov 27, 2015

Dean said:
If the demand is too far off they have an obligation to reallocate.

Depends how you define demand. I'd say, if the occupancy is way off, they have an obligation to reallocate.

Dean · Nov 27, 2015

supersnoop said:
Depends how you define demand. I'd say, if the occupancy is way off, they have an obligation to reallocate.

I'd have a less stringent view of demand, one that would even out the booking speed and timing of bookings to reasonably close to each other. However, I'd want them to have enough information to feel confident that the trends were solid. After a reallocation this usually takes about 4+5 years. I would not agree with the idea that it all gets booked therefore it's OK. Nothing will be perfect though, a big picture view is reasonable.

gometros · Nov 28, 2015

kristenrice said:
I just picked up a room tonight, thanks to someone's "walk"...

I'm trying to get a standard 2BR at BWV for a Sat-Sat in October using transferred points. Since I have to call in order to make the reservation, that first night is always booked by the time I call at 9am. Yesterday (the day the 11 month window opened), I called and got on the waitlist for the first three nights. (We want to set it up as a split stay because part of our group cannot book until 7 months out and we don't know what will be available*). I was toying with the availability tool tonight and lo and behold, the Saturday night was available! I snagged it and I am hoping to repeat the process tomorrow.

*The "rest" of the group (my family of 4) wants a standard 1BR but since we own at AKV/HHI, I can't book us until the 7 month window. We'd like to stay at the BWV for at least part of the stay which is why we are planning on waitlists of 3 and 4 nights. We figured that there is a far better chance of getting a 1BR standard view at 8am at the 7 month window than a 2BR standard.

You just addressed the question I had. If a resort/room type is popular, unless you can book online, you may always have this problem, right? You cannot book the rest of the week if the first day (which is the one at the 11 month window) is not available?

I just ran into this problem, trying to book a studio at BWV for next October. When I called at 9:00, there was no availability each day. However, one thing I did find war that when I checked a little later in the morning, say around 10:30 or 11:00, something opened up. End result? I was able to get the whole week.

dcfromva · Nov 29, 2015

VrBchJ said:
I've never walked a reservation but I'm beginning to understand why people do it. I want BWV std studio using my BWV points and I've gotten on the last four mornings at exactly
8 AM and it's not available. I'm pretty flexible with my dates so I'll keep trying every morning. I had a little trouble last year getting std view but nothing like this.

I agree with crisi--if you do a look back, you may find some single days open--book those and wait list the missing dates 'til you get your week. Once that is done, member services will combine. your dates into one reservation. I have had pretty good luck with this technique.

Wedgeh · Nov 30, 2015

skier_pete said:
If they bumped up weeks in the fall from Choice to Dream season ... would it really dissuade people from wanting to go to Food and Wine? I don't think so.

For me that's an argument FOR the re-allocation - if demand is vastly outstripping supply and would even at a higher point cost there is a responsibility on the program to try and even it out a bit.

supersnoop said:
Depends how you define demand. I'd say, if the occupancy is way off, they have an obligation to reallocate.

DVC is designed, like all timeshares, to run at a very high occupancy rate so I don't think that's a correct way to measure demand.

To the original question I don't think walking is unethical - I've done it myself to secure an AKV club reservation, but if DVC makes changes to make it more difficult/impossible I wouldn't complain. Until then I'll do it if & when I feel it's necessary.

suebeelin · Dec 2, 2015

So.... It never occurred to me to walk a reservation but now I'm very worried about my upcoming December 2016 trip.

It looks like std bwv rooms are disappearing within an hour of the online booking window-- likely due to food n wine.

Isnt the first two weeks of December the most active dvc time? Meaning, first two weeks is harder to find rooms than a std room at bwv during food and wine?

I had planned on a std 2bd at both bwv and BLT for 11 days within the first two weeks of December. Now I'm not sure I'll get them unless I walk (based on this thread). Any advice?

I prefer not to walk bc... It just seems a wee bit selfish.

Is "Walking a reservation" unethical?

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