Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[mom2rtk]

My last update of the day… shortly before 5pm..
So the fear that FP availability would be gone by morning for all good attractions was unfounded, at least in a low crowd day.
In 3 parks, every ride still has significant availability.
Only 3 rides, all in DHS, have sold out by 5pm- Slinky, Falcon and ROTR.

Rides that commonly had very limited same day FP+ availability are largely wide open: Mine Train, FOP—still have every time slot open.
All the mountains at MK are open.

If every day we’re like this, there would be no basis to complain except cost.

Will have to continue to watch for the next few weeks… see how it does in Thanksgiving crowds. There will definitely be less availability than today, the question will be how much less.

I'm not sure a single person thought availability would be gone quickly on the first day.

 

[havoc315]

I'm not sure a single person thought availability would be gone quickly on the first day.

Scroll up. Plenty of people claimed they would have to be on their phone at 7am! Availability for good rides will be gone by morning!

If I had told people that as of 6:15pm, only 3 attractions would be “sold out”… many of the people in this thread would have called me insane. (Even j thought more rides would sell out by 6).

 

[jujubiee4]

Scroll up. Plenty of people claimed they would have to be on their phone at 7am! Availability for good rides will be gone by morning!

If I had told people that as of 6:15pm, only 3 attractions would be “sold out”… many of the people in this thread would have called me insane. (Even j thought more rides would sell out by 6).

What would the strategy be if you stay Deluxe? Should you still get up early? What if your not
rope drop people? If my kids can get 4 or 5 genie+ plus maybe 2 IAS per park is that possible?

Any difference if staying at moderate? Offsite? I guess Im trying to see how it affects people not there
first thing in the morning. Im up and can book but the family usually does not role into any park
until around 10. Thx

 

[havoc315]

What would the strategy be if you stay Deluxe? Should you still get up early? What if your not
rope drop people? If my kids can get 4 or 5 genie+ plus maybe 2 IAS per park is that possible?

Any difference if staying at moderate? Offsite? I guess Im trying to see how it affects people not there
first thing in the morning. Im up and can book but the family usually does not role into any park
until around 10. Thx

For purposes of Genie/LL, no difference between mod and deluxe. And only a minimal difference with off-site.

I can only answer your question for a low crowd day, like today.

For those rolling into Magic Kingdom, Animal
kingdom, or Epcot at 10am… you’re fine just pulling out the app as you are getting ready, around 9am. If you want an early time at Test Track, maybe slightly earlier.

For DHS, if you are planning on maximizing G+/LL, you’ll likely want to start planning earlier —likely no need to be logging in right at 7, but sometime between 8 and 9.
DHS example for 10am arrival, logging in to the app at about 8-9am…
Purchase ROTR— whatever available, say 4pm.
Book first Slinky available — say it’s also already 4pm.
Purchase Runaway Train, for 10:30am.
Arrive at 10– do Muppetvision Standby
10:30- Runaway Railroad, LL
11- can book another G+. Book Millennium Falcon - 3pm return time.
11-1: See BATB, Lightning McQueen, have lunch.
1:00– Book G+, 3:45 at TSM.

Now, you haven’t redeemed any G+ yet, except for your IAS purchase of Runaway Railroad.
But you’re stacked for the evening:
3:00 MF
3:45 TSM
4:00 ROTR
4:00 Slinky

you can likely stack 2 or 3 more into the evening.

So a late arriver can really stack the afternoon/evening. In fact — you can do the same stacking even if you don’t want to arrive at the park until 3pm.
Just book your IAS in the morning for sometime after 3. And log into G+ every 2 hours: pre-open, then 11, then 1. Done right, that will give you 5 LL passes, all for after 3pm.

 

[havoc315]

Day 2...
11:20am check-in..

At DHS, ROTR sold out shortly after 9. But everything else remains available. Slinky Dog return time is 8pm, so Slinky Dog will sell out soon.
Magic Kingdom-- Everything is available. Space Mountain is a 30 minute standby line or "ride now" for $5 basically. Almost every attraction has a return time less than 2 hours away. (Peter Pan and Jungle Cruise are slightly more than 2 hours).
Epcot -- wide open, all return times within 2 hours.
AK-wide open. Most standby lines remain fairly short, but G+ can turn the 35 minute line at Safari into "ride now." Return time at Navi is about an hour.

At least in low crowd days, it appears we can safely put to rest the whole, "I'll need to be on my phone at 7am!"
With the exception of DHS, you're perfectly safe (in low crowds), simply booking your G+ passes on your way to the park.
For DHS, if you want ROTR... while 7am isn't necessary, definitely want to do it in the fairly early morning.
For Slinky Dog, if you want a morning/early afternoon return time, you will need to book quite early. If you wait till 10:30am or later, you are going to be looking at limited availability-evening return times.

Personally -- the way DHS return times are stacking up, I'd be tempted to turn the morning into a resort day, and collect G+/LL's for afternoon/evening use. To do this, just basically log-in every 2 hours.
Before 9am -- Purchase afternoon/evening times for ROTR and MMRR. Watch the G+ return times, and book an afternoon/evening time.
At 11am, book Millennium Falcon -afternoon/evening return time.
At 1pm - Book RNR or TOT for 3-4pm.
At 3-4pm, head to DHS. If you arrive at DHS at 4, you should have 4 passes all times between 4-6. Around 3-4, you'll book the other TOT/RNR for about a 6pm return time. So you'll really have 5 passes stacked to use from 4-6:15. Around 5, you'll be able to book another G+, say TSM for 7pm. So at 6:15, you take a dinner break. At 7, you redeem TSM and book another 8pm G+ (Star Tours or Swirling Saucers). You do 1 of those 2 attractions standby, and one with G+. (potentially both with G+).
This itinerary gives you a pass for every true attraction at DHS, all to be used from 4pm to 9pm. Not bad.

 

[dez1978]

Just wanted to follow up here now that we've been doing this for a whie. And it seems that you'd have been wrong about the ease and availablity of booking. Seems like it's pretty frequent that HS has no passes available to book after 1 or 2. Sure if you'd booked them earlier and stacked you'd have rides. But I've looked daily and SSD is gone by 705. Yesterday even toy story was mostly sold out by 430. At 330 the return time for RNRC was almost 9 pm. The earlier "Genie + will be so great" seemed to indicate you'd just be able to book times all day long from open to close and it would never run out. Heck, if you aren't on site you don't even have a shot at ROR. At 840 am, it's already sold out before off site has a shot. So it seems to me that its not all rainbows and unicorns.

Before 9am -- Purchase afternoon/evening times for ROTR and MMRR. Watch the G+ return times, and book an afternoon/evening time.
At 11am, book Millennium Falcon -afternoon/evening return time.
At 1pm - Book RNR or TOT for 3-4pm.
At 3-4pm, head to DHS. If you arrive at DHS at 4, you should have 4 passes all times between 4-6. Around 3-4, you'll book the other TOT/RNR for about a 6pm return time. So you'll really have 5 passes stacked to use from 4-6:15. Around 5, you'll be able to book another G+, say TSM for 7pm. So at 6:15, you take a dinner break. At 7, you redeem TSM and book another 8pm G+ (Star Tours or Swirling Saucers). You do 1 of those 2 attractions standby, and one with G+. (potentially both with G+).
This itinerary gives you a pass for every true attraction at DHS, all to be used from 4pm to 9pm. Not bad.

Today this doesn't even work. at not even 9 am, Millenium Falcon is already booked out past 4, yesterday at 11 am, the return times were after 8 pm. ROTR is sold out. And heaven forbid you want to use any LL earlier in the day at a different park.

 

[havoc315]

Just wanted to follow up here now that we've been doing this for a whie. And it seems that you'd have been wrong about the ease and availablity of booking. Seems like it's pretty frequent that HS has no passes available to book after 1 or 2. Sure if you'd booked them earlier and stacked you'd have rides. But I've looked daily and SSD is gone by 705. Yesterday even toy story was mostly sold out by 430. At 330 the return time for RNRC was almost 9 pm. The earlier "Genie + will be so great" seemed to indicate you'd just be able to book times all day long from open to close and it would never run out. Heck, if you aren't on site you don't even have a shot at ROR. At 840 am, it's already sold out before off site has a shot. So it seems to me that its not all rainbows and unicorns.

Today this doesn't even work. at not even 9 am, Millenium Falcon is already booked out past 4, yesterday at 11 am, the return times were after 8 pm. ROTR is sold out. And heaven forbid you want to use any LL earlier in the day at a different park.

My plan was always to revisit in higher crowds. I was planning on doing an examination next week, during the ultra high crowds of Thanksgiving.

But let's see how my earlier comments are holding up now, with increasing crowds, but still not 10/10:

At least in low crowd days, it appears we can safely put to rest the whole, "I'll need to be on my phone at 7am!"
With the exception of DHS, you're perfectly safe (in low crowds), simply booking your G+ passes on your way to the park.
For DHS, if you want ROTR... while 7am isn't necessary, definitely want to do it in the fairly early morning.
For Slinky Dog, if you want a morning/early afternoon return time, you will need to book quite early. If you wait till 10:30am or later, you are going to be looking at limited availability-evening return times.

As I write this, it's 9:30 a.m., the parks are crowded. Yet, everything I said above is still true. At Magic Kingdom, every attraction is still available. Every attraction still has morning return times except Peter Pan, Mine Train and Jungle Cruise.
Epcot still has plenty of availability, nothing sold out. Remy and Test Track are already pushed into the deeper afternoon.
Animal Kingdom -- Everything remains available. Morning return times for everything, except FOP which is afternoon times available.
DHS continues to be the most challenging, as I said from the start. Yet, everything is still available except Slinky Dog and Rise of the Resistance. So the only thing truly worse than I posted above, is Slinky. Slinky is now becoming the equivalent to the ROTR boarding groups, when they were free. Just like you had to get a ROTR boarding group right at 7, that's now the case for Slinky. ROTR continues to be available past 7, but it does sell out often before 9, making it hard for off-site guests. (Of course, off-site guests would have zero chance of ever getting ROTR at 30 days, if the old system was still in use).
So no shock, as crowds have increased, things have gotten a little worse. But still a million times better than FP+. The ONLY sold out individual purchase LL is ROTR. Meaning both on-site and off-site guests can book FOP, Mine Train, Runaway Railroad, etc. Under FP+, none of these rides would be available at 30 days, and often they wouldn't even be available at 60 days.
The only attraction in all of WDW that requires you to be on your phone right at 7am, is Slinky Dog. But that's just a trade from ROTR being the 7:00 VQ to it being Slinky.

So then you quoted my specific DHS plan that I hypothesized about. This was what I projected in low crowds, let's see how it holds up in higher crowds:

Personally -- the way DHS return times are stacking up, I'd be tempted to turn the morning into a resort day, and collect G+/LL's for afternoon/evening use. To do this, just basically log-in every 2 hours.
Before 9am -- Purchase afternoon/evening times for ROTR and MMRR. Watch the G+ return times, and book an afternoon/evening time.
At 11am, book Millennium Falcon -afternoon/evening return time.
At 1pm - Book RNR or TOT for 3-4pm.
At 3-4pm, head to DHS. If you arrive at DHS at 4, you should have 4 passes all times between 4-6. Around 3-4, you'll book the other TOT/RNR for about a 6pm return time. So you'll really have 5 passes stacked to use from 4-6:15. Around 5, you'll be able to book another G+, say TSM for 7pm. So at 6:15, you take a dinner break. At 7, you redeem TSM and book another 8pm G+ (Star Tours or Swirling Saucers). You do 1 of those 2 attractions standby, and one with G+. (potentially both with G+).
This itinerary gives you a pass for every true attraction at DHS, all to be used from 4pm to 9pm. Not bad.

So, in higher crowds, I'd have to modify the first step -- Instead of "before 9am".. it would be "at 7am"
So at 7:00am, purchase ROTR, MMRR, and get an afternoon return time for Slinky.
I said, at 11am, get a Millennium Falcon G+ -- well, afternoon G+ is still available as I write this at 9:40. I'll check back at 11am and reply to this post.
I suggested that at 1 and 3, you'd book TOT and RNR -- That still looks like it will be possible. RNR return time is currently 12:25 and TOT is 1:55.

So I'll post in this thread today as if I'm going through the day:

At 7:00am, I purchased a 3-4 ROTR and a 4-5MMRR. I got a G+ for 3pm on Slinky.
I went back to bed. Got up at 10 for coffee, casual breakfast. At 11, I'll book another G+ and then head to the pool.

I already have passes for ROTR, MMRR and Slinky. Under FP+, with their tiers, it would have been impossible to have all three. So I'm already ahead of the old system. But let's see how far ahead of the old system I can get. I'll be back after 11...

11am edit -- Per my plan above, at 11am, I was going to book Smuggler's Run, with an afternoon or evening return time. So let's see if that's still possible:
At exactly 11am, for my second stacked G+ reservation -- 5:55 Smuggler's Run available.

So as I prepare to head down to the pool at 11am.... I now have 4 "tier 1" stacked DHS passes in my pocket:
I have 3-4 ROTR. 3-4 Slinky. 4-5 MMRR and 5:55-6:55 MF:SR
So 4 passes that I can redeem over a 2-4 hour window.

Doing pretty good so far. In fact, so far, still pretty consistent with the "low crowd" plan that I outlined above. Definitely far better than FP+... wouldn't be able to get four tier-1 FPs for DHS before even entering the park!

So after swimming and relaxing in the hot tub, grabbing a bite, I'll check in at 1pm, for my last pre-park G+ stacked reservation. My low crowd plan was to book TOT or RNR at 1. It looks like this will remain possible, as RNR and TOT are both still showing afternoon return times. But I'll check in at 1...

Sorry I'm late... it's 1:30 as I look at Genie+.. .So first real failure of the low crowd plan. TOT is gone. RNR is still around with a 6:05 return time.

So as of my 1-1:30 casual morning, as I stack by DHS afternoon, I now have:
3:00 Slinky
3:00 ROTR
4:00 MMRR
5:55 Smuggler's Run
6:05 RNR

5 passes.... For 5 of the top 6 rides at DHS. Before even entering the park. No way I could have ever done that with FP+..

So in my hypothetical day, I'll now finish up a light lunch, and start heading to the park soon. Looking to arrive at DHS around 3pm..
At 3pm, I'll be able to book TWO more G+, but availability will be limited by then. (to explain, if I booked RNR at 1, then I get the 2 hour window at 3. But if I board Slinky first, then I can also book a new FP for that check-in).

So in this mid level crowd day, I'm still doing well. 5 LL passes, timed from 3-6. My plan at this juncture... At 3pm, I'd like to book 2 out of 3: Star Tours, Saucers, TSM. If I'm successful, I'll have gotten 7 LL passes, during a mid-crowd level day at DHS...

I'll be back at 3...
Back at 3..
Enter the park a bit before 3..
at 3, I check in at Slinky and book TSM -- 7:05 return time. With the 2 hour rule, I also book Saucers for 7:30...

So, it's now 3pm, and I have 7 LL Passes on a mid crowd day!!
Review -- LL's and nice evening plan:
3:00 Slinky
3:00 ROTR
4:00 MMRR
4:30pm -- Early dinner
5:55 Smuggler's Run
6:05 RNR
7:05 TSM
7:30 Saucer

So after Saucers at 7:30, the only true "attractions" that I didn't get LL passes for were Star Tours and TOT... I can do them both standby after Saucers...
OR... I might be able to get another G+ at 5...

But, overall, seems my "low crowd" plan still functioned beautifully in a mid-crowd day.

Next week, I'll revisit for 10/10 crowds. I do NOT expect to so easily get 7 LLs on Thanksgiving. But Genie+ will be a huge success if I can get 4 premium LLs or more. Optimistically, I'd love to still get 5-6 during high crowds... we will find out..

 

[havoc315]

And heaven forbid you want to use any LL earlier in the day at a different park.

As to this, it doesn't seem you understand how different park LL's work. Purchasing an individual LL earlier in another park doesn't stop you from purchasing your second LL in the afternoon at DHS. You can purchase them both right at 7am.

And park hopping G+ also works great.
Let's say your park pass in Animal Kingdom, and you're going to park hop to DHS. So at 7am, you book G+ at Slinky. You get a 2pm return time.
You go to Animal Kingdom, 8am opening. You purchase LL for FOP. You do a couple rides standby. At 10am, you can book another G+.... It's just about 10am now, I can get an 11am Safari, a noon Navi, or a 10am Dinosaur.

So even if I don't book another pass after 10am, I still already have 4 passes -- 2 purchased, say FOP and ROTR. I also have Slinky, and I have Safari OR Navi OR Dinosaur.
4 quality passes, split over 2 parks. That would have been impossible under FP+.

It's odd complaining about some difficulty splitting your passes over different parks, as it was completely impossible under FP+. Under FP+, if you wanted to park hop to DHS and get FP+ for DHS, that meant you couldn't get ANY passes for your morning park. So as demonstrated above, this new system is vastly superior in this regard.

 

[havoc315]

HIGH CROWD REPORT -- I've been watching the 10 out of 10 crowds the last few days.
I don't have time for a long post, but this is the gist:

In 10 out of 10 crowds, you can't expect to stroll in at 4pm and start selecting lots of G+ passes at that point. Yes, you do need to get started pretty early to have an effective day.

At Magic Kingdom -- The most popular rides can start to disappear by late morning. By mid to late afternoon, everything else will start to fill. So still plenty of opportunity to collect the 2 LL attractions plus 3-5 G+ passes.
At AK -- FOP can book up quick, so purchase it early if you're going to purchase it. It simply doesn't have a lot of real G+ attractions, but you shouldn't have too much difficulty booking 2-3 G+ attractions even in 10/10 crowds. It's currently noon, Dinosaur, Navi and Everest are still available. Safari is gone.
At Epcot -- Test Track will disappear before park open in 10/10 crowds. Frozen and Remy will sell out, so purchase early. But Soarin, Mission Space, etc, remain available.

The most challenging park -- DHS.. On a 10/10 day, you absolutely do need to start booking at 7am. Of course, you can easily purchase both LL's at 7am if you're an on-site guest. Slinky has replaced ROTR, for essentially being a 7am rush. But on your phone right at 7, you'll get it. But first real limitation we see on a 10/10 days -- Unlikely you can get Slinky AND Millennium Falcon. Pick just 1. By the time you are eligible for your second G+, the other will probably be "sold out."
Other than that, you should be able to get a second "premium" G+ by the time you hit second eligibility, between 9am and 11am. Choosing between TOT, TSM, RNR, Star Tours, Saucers.
By the time you get 3rd eligibility between 11-1, your options may be very limited -- Down to Saucer and Star Tours.
So, including the 2 LL purchases, you can pick up 4 "premium" G+ passes on a 10/10 day at DHS. You can get a 5th mid-level like Saucers or Star Tours. Then it's just BATB, Muppets, etc.
So on a 10/10 day, G+ is still better than FP+... can get 4 premium passes, as opposed to just 1-2 with tiers under FP+. But you're definitely not going to get everything. And the "must be on phone at 7am" -- While not true in average crowds or at other parks, it absolutely is true for 10/10 days at DHS.

 

[Disneylover99]

So on a 10/10 day, G+ is still better than FP+... can get 4 premium passes, as opposed to just 1-2 with tiers under FP+. But you're definitely not going to get everything. And the "must be on phone at 7am" -- While not true in average crowds or at other parks, it absolutely is true for 10/10 days at DHS.

I went the last week of December for many years. I booked my fp’s 60 days out from the comfort of my home and chose the exact times I wanted for 3 premium rides. Stress free.

Then I booked additional fp’s while at the parks. Sometimes I booked the same premium ride multiple times after I used my 3 fp’s. And it was free.

Glad you like it, but what you described in your post will never be better for me.

 

[havoc315]

I went the last week of December for many years. I booked my fp’s 60 days out from the comfort of my home and chose the exact times I wanted for 3 premium rides. Stress free.

Outside of Magic Kingdom, that’s a physical impossibility. You weren’t allowed to pre-book 3 tier-1 rides. You were limited to 1.

So DHS, immediately pre-Covid — Slinky, Millenium Falcon and Runaway Railroad (ROTR wasn’t on FP at that time), you could only book 1 of the 3. And unless you booked more than 60 days out, you likely couldn’t get any of the 3

Then I booked additional fp’s while at the parks. Sometimes I booked the same premium ride multiple times after I used my 3 fp’s. And it was free.

Glad you like it, but what you described in your post will never be better for me.

I’ll take getting every top tier ride, instead of being limited to just one.
And the new system is actually much cheaper than “free FP”— under the free system, I could only book the best rides if I stayed onsite with a 60 day window. Now I can stay offsite at a quarter the price, and mostly get the same passes. (Even in 10/10 crowds, only ROTR is selling out before 9)

 

[Disneylover99]

Outside of Magic Kingdom, that’s a physical impossibility. You weren’t allowed to pre-book 3 tier-1 rides. You were limited to 1.

So DHS, immediately pre-Covid — Slinky, Millenium Falcon and Runaway Railroad (ROTR wasn’t on FP at that time), you could only book 1 of the 3. And unless you booked more than 60 days out, you likely couldn’t get any of the 3




Definitely cheaper under the old system. But I’ll take getting every top tier ride, instead of being limited to just one.

You’re hung up on the top tiers. Not everyone wants them. It depends on what you like to ride. Millennium was once and done for me.

My go to at HS was Slinky, TofT and RnR.
My go to at AK was FOP, Everest and Safari
My go to at Epcot was Test Track, Spaceship Earth and Living with the Land or Figment.
MK was Seven Dwarfs, Space and Peter Pan

Make all 3 for one hour apart. Choose the ones in the same land back to back, so you go from one ride to the next without waiting or going all over the park. You could really shape your day. It was so easy and efficient for us.

I will try Genie+/Lightening Lane. I will most likely need to buy it when we travel over Christmas week If I want to ride a few rides. But based on what I’ve read/seen so far, it will never come close to beating out fp for my family. Not by a long shot.

 

[havoc315]

You’re hung up on the top tiers. Not everyone wants them. It depends on what you like to ride. Millennium was once and done for me.

Correct -- Not everyone wants the premium rides. Fact remains, under FP+, you could only get 1 of those premium rides. Under FP+, you can usually get all of them. (in 10/10 crowds, you may be limited to 3/4 at DHS)

My go to at Epcot was Test Track, Spaceship Earth and Living with the Land or Figment.

Perfect example of the worthlessness of FP+ commonly. Even in 10/10 crowds, 3 of those rides barely have any lines.
Right now at Epcot:
Figment: 5 minutes
Living the Land: 5 minutes
Spaceship Earth: 5 minutes

So yes, you were able to get 1 valuable FP, and 2 worthless FPs.

With Genie+, if you're wiling to spend money, easily get Test Track, Soarin, Remy and Frozen.

FP+ was indeed excellent if -- 1, you stayed on property. 2-- you only wanted 1 premium ride per day, and were satisfied with the mid tier and low tier rides in addition to your 1 premium per day.

 

[Disneylover99]

Correct -- Not everyone wants the premium rides. Fact remains, under FP+, you could only get 1 of those premium rides. Under FP+, you can usually get all of them. (in 10/10 crowds, you may be limited to 3/4 at DHS)

Agreed. Lol.

Perfect example of the worthlessness of FP+ commonly. Even in 10/10 crowds, 3 of those rides barely have any lines.
Right now at Epcot:
Figment: 5 minutes
Living the Land: 5 minutes
Spaceship Earth: 5 minutes

That’s never been my experience when I’ve been during Christmas week. Generally there is no such thing as a worthless fp that time of year. Always happy to use a fp when Figment, Living with the Land, Muppet Vision are 45 minutes+.

FP+ was indeed excellent if -- 1, you stayed on property. 2-- you only wanted 1 premium ride per day, and were satisfied with the mid tier and low tier rides in addition to your 1 premium per day.

As you mentioned, no tiers at MK. Top 2 tiers at AK with FP+ were FOP and Navi. Most people would choose Everest, EE or Dinosaur over Navi. So choose FOP and your favourite 2 rides.

Believe it or not, many people rode many premium rides daily with FP+ at all the parks. Again, we sometimes had the opportunity to ride a premium ride more than once. Maybe you were shut out of many popular rides like Slinky or Fop. If that’s the case, I understand why you might prefer Genie.

 

[havoc315]

Agreed. Lol.

lol.Late night typo. With FP+, only 1 top tier ride. G+, get all of them.

That’s never been my experience when I’ve been during Christmas week.

I’ll go with verified facts over anecdotes. This week, Epcot is sold out, maximum capacity. The largest possible crowds. And those rides still have minimal lines.

So you go get your FP+ to skip the 15 minute line at Figment, while I take the LL for Frozen and skip a 2 hour line.

You can certainly prefer getting only 1 top tier ride for “free.” But I prefer getting every top tier ride.

As you mentioned, no tiers at MK. Top 2 tiers at AK with FP+ were FOP and Navi.

Great proof of my point. I actually never got to ride FOP under FP+ . Ride it for the first time in my life recently. FPs for FOP always had to be booked more than 60 days in advance. So I never was able to get one.

Now, as long as I spend a few dollars, I am virtually guaranteed FOP. Another huge win for G+.

Anyway… just started watching this…. Detailed scientific and historic perspective on how FP+ was a broken disastrous system.

 

[Disneylover99]

I’ll go with verified facts over anecdotes. This week, Epcot is sold out, maximum capacity. The largest possible crowds. And those rides still have minimal lines.

You really can’t compare today’s “sold out” to Christmas/New Years when there was fp, before capacity limits were in place, as there are now. Have you been New Years Eve before COVID? Even then, with wall to wall people, Epcot was never sold out.

So you go get your FP+ to skip the 15 minute line at Figment, while I take the LL for Frozen and skip a 2 hour line.

You can certainly prefer getting only 1 top tier ride for “free.” But I prefer getting every top tier ride.

Well, as I said, the lines for Figment were 45 minutes+. So I took it, but I also got my premium rides. The one thing about Christmas week which always surprised me was the ability to get multiple same day Fp’s for all the rides. I chalk it up to a combination of maximum ride capacity, longer hours, fewer locals who know how to utilize the system, many international travellers who didn’t know how to utilize the system and so many people changing plans mid-day. It was easy to refresh and catch something good.

I know those days are done. And I recognize you got shut out of rides and that seems to be your driving force for your love of Genie+. I’m sure there are many others who feel like you do. And I’m happy for you. Now you get to ride all the Premium rides once per day.

Genie+ is a better system for you. I just don’t get why you can’t recognize that many people who loved fp were also able to ride all the premium rides.

 

[havoc315]

You really can’t compare today’s “sold out” to Christmas/New Years when there was fp, before capacity limits were in place, as there are now. Have you been New Years Eve before COVID? Even then, with wall to wall people, Epcot was never sold out.

I'm comparing what exists. Lines are worse now than pre-Covid, as there are still closures of attractions and entertainment. Are you suggesting that I could be 100% guaranteed to get Soarin, Test Track AND Frozen FPs during Christmas week?!?! If not, then I'll definitely take Genie. Which is definitely flawed, but it's the best option among flawed choices.

Well, as I said, the lines for Figment were 45 minutes+. So I took it, but I also got my premium rides.
[/QUOTE}

We have very different definitions of premium rides. I'm considering the top 2-3 most popular rides at each park as the Premium rides. Under Genie+, I can almost always get all 2-3 of them. Even if I'm staying offsite, I can get most of them.

Again, I never ever got FOP under FP+. Never in my life.

Genie+ is a better system for you. I just don’t get why you can’t recognize that many people who loved fp were also able to ride all the premium rides.

Again, I fully understand why some would prefer FP+. But it's a fact, that you weren't guaranteed all the top tier rides. Sure, in low crowds, or with lots of refreshing of the app, you might get many of them. But you'd also get locked out of many. And there was a strong bias towards on-site guests.

 

[Disneylover99]

I'm comparing what exists. Lines are worse now than pre-Covid, as there are still closures of attractions and entertainment.

Fp never existed under these conditions. You can’t compare it.

Are you suggesting that I could be 100% guaranteed to get Soarin, Test Track AND Frozen FPs during Christmas week?!?!

No. I’ve already explained it. It’s like I’m talking, but you’re not listening anyways.
So go be happy with your Genie.

 

[havoc315]

Fp never existed under these conditions. You can’t compare it.


No. I’ve already explained it. It’s like I’m talking, but you’re not listening anyways.
So go be happy with your Genie.

Exactly, FP didn't exist under the current conditions. Under the current conditions, due to continued entertainment closures, they would only be able to give 1-2 FPs per day. It was part of the reason for the switch.

And I'm listening, but you keep missing the point.
You keep saying, "hey... under FP, I could get lots of good rides often, most people could get many good rides"
And that's absolutely true!! Bur, I'd much rather get the top 3-4 rides in every park, then get 1 of the top rides, then a bunch of the middle rides, and then constantly refresh my phone all day and cross my fingers that maybe I can get 1 or 2 more of the premium rides. While it being impossible to get some of the premium rides. (As I said, I never got FOP in my life).

But it comes down to this -- Scarcity.
Disney does not have enough ride capacity to meet demand. Thus, you have scarcity of capacity.
So when you don't have enough or something to go around, how to you determine who gets it?
1 -- Standby only. Give everyone an equal chance. Whether onsite or offsite, etc. No additional charge in money. But a huge additional charge in time allotment. Who gets to ride ROTR? The person willing to get to the park 2 hours earlier, or the person willing to wait in a 2 hour line. So no additional cost in money. Everyone has the option, and the capacity goes to those willing to wait the longest.
2-- Those willing to pay. Theme parks don't go with the purest form. But Broadway shows are the purest form. You charge a high ticket price, based on supply and demand. If ROTR can handle 10,000 people were day without a backed up line, then you sell 10,000 time reserved tickets, at the highest price you can based on supply and demand. No theme park goes with the pure version. But the individual attraction LL purchases adopt this model -- sell out the ride reservations, while still having a standby option for those willing to pay in waiting. The main problem has been that the price is set too low for some attractions in high crowds. While $7 for Space Mountain in low crowds may be ok, ROTR should probably be $40 for Thanksgiving and Christmas, not $15.
3--Those who are most needing or deserving -- When vaccines were scarce for Covid, the elderly were prioritized. But with ride allotment, nobody "needs" it, so this isn't very applicable.
4- Distribute the scarcity as a reward incentive -- Disney has always done this to some degree. Mostly rewarding on-site guests over off-site, deluxe over mod/value, club level over others. It ties indirectly into those who are willing to pay. It's not just like-skip passes. It's also EMH, etc.
5--A complex system of red tape and hoops, as a means of limiting distribution of the scarce item. This is similar to the time commitment of standby in option 1. But can include things like filling out paperwork in advance, having to get special clearances, having to do other things to qualify.

Genie+ AND FP+ are both means to distribute this scarcity using the tools listed above. Neither of them fit perfectly into a single box, they both take from different boxes.
FP+ -- about 20% of the ride capacity was still reserved for those willing to wait in long lines. It heavily relied upon 2/4/5 -- Gave an advantage to those willing to pay more to stay onsite, gave deluxe club level guests the ability to purchase additional FPs, required the red tape of books weeks and months in advance.
Genie+ -- Still reserves an unknown amount for those willing to wait in standby lines. Anecdotal evidence suggests currently that is more than the 20% under FP+. It moves more towards (2) -- direct payment, and moves away from the indirect payments/reward incentives of (4). It still has a complex red tape system as (5), but differently than FP+. Does away with the booking weeks and months in advance, but instead has more of a same-day complexity.

As someone who hates lines and hates red tape.... I actually wish they would move for strongly towards (2). Universal charges up to $300 per day for an unlimited line skipping system.
I'd personally be fine with Disney cutting park capacity by 70%, and charging $400 per ticket per day. ROTR can handle 10,000 people per day without a backed up line? The solution is to only let 10,000 people per day into DHS. Charge them a boatload of money.

But since Disney doesn't want to go in that direction...... they are left with other frustrating tools to distribute the scarce ride availability.

 

[JZCubed]

Exactly, FP didn't exist under the current conditions. Under the current conditions, due to continued entertainment closures, they would only be able to give 1-2 FPs per day. It was part of the reason for the switch.

But since Disney doesn't want to go in that direction...... they are left with other frustrating tools to distribute the scarce ride availability.

You're arguments are ever changing.

You were called-out in late-summer for comparing Disney Land & Disney World.....you argued how they were effectively the same, therefore, MaxPass/Genie would be better than FastPass.

Just a few months ago you were all too quick to document that Disney World & Disney Land are so similar in ride capacity and numbers of guests, that Genie+ was going to work better than FastPass+, because MaxPass reasons.....

Now, you're agreeing that Genie+ is a flawed system, and yet, somehow, it's still better than FastPass+......despite plenty of folks documenting how FastPass was better for them, even with real-world comparison to Genie.

[But if any of us who have engaged in conversation with you have learned anything - it's all about havoc315, ammirite]

Amazingly, with real-world comparable experiences documented on these Threads, you are still arguing that people are somehow wrong - Genie+ is better.....because reasons.....

On the other hand, I have been following multiple Threads about Genie+. Seems as if the majority of complaints about capacity & tech failures are coming from Disney World, not Disney Land.....which is what many of us tried, repeatedly, to demonstrate to you.

Moreover, with you being the exception, I'm not reading nearly as many comments about folks who enjoy Genie versus FastPass (when excluding money from the conversation).

Additionally, you still willfully ignore the never-ending failures of Disney IT. Seems to be countless families that have to relive these deficiencies on a daily basis while vacationing, instead of having advanced warning that came with FastPass bookings months out. I'll say it differently - Disney is increasingly requiring guests to rely on technology that is perpetually flawed; Genie punctuates the notion.

In a nutshell, your thesis was all about enhancing the Park Experience through Genie (versus MaxPass and/or FastPass).

Read through the Threads and let me know if the descriptions & tone (beyond money complaints) are indicative of folks having an enhanced or diminished Park experience in the 6-weeks since Genie launched.

My two-cents - the complaints are not about the money, it's about a flawed system. But adding insult-to-injury (making the flawed-system seem worse), is being charged for it.

By your own admission, Universal's system is different than Disney. My family had their first lousy Disney experience this past summer and their first Universal experience. We preferred Universal so much more (because of rise access) that our future plans (based on our Guest Experience) will no longer be Disney-focused.....because Disney, for way too many of us, has demonstrated that they are no longer focused on the Guest Experience if they cannot charge more for it. Universal is being honest, the same cannot be said for Disney.