New Knott's Berry Farm (Possibly All Cedar Fair Parks) Assistance Policy

[Evita_W]

Before everything shutdown, Knott's Berry Farm used a system very similar to Disney where you would go to the attraction and they would give you a return time. The biggest differences were that they still used a paper card not linked to tickets and didn't take pictures.

We were able to go for passholder previews and they have modified the system slightly, they still use a paper card not linked to tickets and don't take pictures, both of which I think can lead to abuse and would like to see that part changed. But they are now using what they call a "reverse wait" system.

When you go to an attraction, they let you on right away and note the time, the current wait time and when your next attraction is available.

This works a bit better for many needs, as you may be up to riding a particular ride right then, but not later. It also helps to account for time you may be spending in the queue.

We didn't stay until park closing, but that is one area I could see being an issue, as let's say you go to ride 30 minutes before closing and the queue is 60 minutes, how does that work out? I don't know how they are handling those situations, although I know in the past Knott's usually tried to cut off lines to where the last rider was off the ride by park closing, so that may still be the case and then this wouldn't come up.

Looking at the websites for some of the other Cedar Fair Parks across the country, it appears that this is a change fire the entire chain.

I am not saying other parks should or shouldn't adopt this system, as I don't have enough experience with it to see the downsides as of yet. I just figured people here may want to know in case they plan to visit Knott's or other Cedar Fair Parks.

 

[DLgal]

That actually sounds great to me. I would love that sort of system to come to Disney, but I feel like that would be a step backwards for them since everything is done electronically.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for the review.
I remember people talking about a ‘reverse wait time’ system like that when DAS was first being discussed. Some of the same possible issues were discussed - like what happens toward the end of the day.

When DAS first came out, Disney was using paper cards and written times. My own opinion, the reverse wait time might work better for paper than electronic.

 

[Evita_W]

I actually think it would work even better on electronic, it would simply not work until the next time was available.

As for the end of the day, the more I think about it, the more I realize it shouldn't be an issue. If any guest gets in a 60 minutes long line at 30 minutes before the park closes, they obviously wouldn't be able to ride any other attractions that day. So, they could simply mark the pass as done for the day instead of a next available ride time.

As I said, DH and I don't have enough experience yet with the new system to see all of the potential downsides.

Another thing to note is there are locations where if you use a mobility device where you have to use the accessible entrance, you end up waiting the same length as the normal line or longer and they don't even bother checking the card for those and that seems reasonable. They often ask if you can use the stairs to please do so in those situations, as you will get on faster and it frees up the space for those that really can't do the stairs.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Thanks for the review.
I remember people talking about a ‘reverse wait time’ system like that when DAS was first being discussed. Some of the same possible issues were discussed - like what happens toward the end of the day.

When DAS first came out, Disney was using paper cards and written times. My own opinion, the reverse wait time might work better for paper than electronic.

I was thinking the same thing, that someone here had suggested this right after the DAS came out.

To the OP, I'm assuming that during the wait for the next ride, the guest can ride anything else so long as they don't use the card to enter?

 

[Evita_W]

I was thinking the same thing, that someone here had suggested this right after the DAS came out.

To the OP, I'm assuming that during the wait for the next ride, the guest can ride anything else so long as they don't use the card to enter?

Yes, which is the same as before, they could easily ride anything that they didn't need the card to enter while waiting for their return time. This eliminates going to the attraction (Knott's didn't do the kiosk thing that DLR did) and coming back, which as I said I can see working better for certain issues.

And yes, I am sure this has been suggested for Disney, but again I am not saying it should or shouldn't be used, just trying to inform for those that may want to visit a Knott's or another Cedar Fair park, as when DH went to get the pass, they never told him about the change, it was only when he went to get a return time that he found out about the change and had to wait for us to get there.

 

[tobikaye]

Yes, which is the same as before, they could easily ride anything that they didn't need the card to enter while waiting for their return time. This eliminates going to the attraction (Knott's didn't do the kiosk thing that DLR did) and coming back, which as I said I can see working better for certain issues.

And yes, I am sure this has been suggested for Disney, but again I am not saying it should or shouldn't be used, just trying to inform for those that may want to visit a Knott's or another Cedar Fair park, as when DH went to get the pass, they never told him about the change, it was only when he went to get a return time that he found out about the change and had to wait for us to get there.

I haven't made it to Kings Island yet this year, but once I do, I will let you know if it looks like it is a Cedar Fair across the board policy. Granted, half the time we go to KI, she might not even use the card because she only rides the carousel and train and occasionally the antique cars. We almost always pickup the card though because she never knows if she might try something different and I will ask when we pickup if anything is different.

 

[DisneyOma]

We didn't stay until park closing, but that is one area I could see being an issue, as let's say you go to ride 30 minutes before closing and the queue is 60 minutes, how does that work out? I don't know how they are handling those situations, although I know in the past Knott's usually tried to cut off lines to where the last rider was off the ride by park closing, so that may still be the case and then this wouldn't come up.

Easy - one couldn't get into a queue after the park closed, right? So if the next return time was after the park closed, there would be no queue to get into. I'm not seeing the issue?

 

[Evita_W]

Easy - one couldn't get into a queue after the park closed, right? So if the next return time was after the park closed, there would be no queue to get into. I'm not seeing the issue?

That pretty much what I said in my last post.

 

[tobikaye]

FYI: KI has this on their site for boarding passes. Looks like it is across the board for Cedar Fair.

 

[SueM in MN]

I just saw 2 articles about new Disney attempts to shorten Guests’ waits in line.
The first is a trial at Disney Shanghai
https://www.shanghaidisneyresort.com/en/guest-services/standbypass/
The other is a Disney patent report for a dynamic queue management system
https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210150421

 

[Evita_W]

I just saw 2 articles about new Disney attempts to shorten Guests’ waits in line.
The first is a trial at Disney Shanghai
https://www.shanghaidisneyresort.com/en/guest-services/standbypass/
The other is a Disney patent report for a dynamic queue management system
https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210150421

How does the Standby Pass at Shanghai vary from FP, especially as implemented at Disneyland in California?

And I can't even begin to comprehend what they are saying in the patent, can you explain that one in plain English please?

 

[DisneyOma]

I just saw 2 articles about new Disney attempts to shorten Guests’ waits in line.
The first is a trial at Disney Shanghai
https://www.shanghaidisneyresort.com/en/guest-services/standbypass/
The other is a Disney patent report for a dynamic queue management system
https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210150421

Ugh, the Standby pass sounds dreadful! It basically limits who can get in the queue, pretty much like RotR, but for more attractions. Or you can buy the fancy pass and get access. So it sounds like Disney is going to a class system? If this happens in the US, I see a surge in DAS requests, unless this trumps DAS, like RotR does.

 

[mamabunny]

Ugh, the Standby pass sounds dreadful! It basically limits who can get in the queue, pretty much like RotR, but for more attractions. Or you can buy the fancy pass and get access. So it sounds like Disney is going to a class system? If this happens in the US, I see a surge in DAS requests, unless this trumps DAS, like RotR does.

Not sure, but I think it won't be able to trump DAS per se - because the DAS is intended to give *equal* access - so anything that gives access above/beyond that (even if a paid option) might be interpreted as expanding the scope of how the DAS is implemented/used to offer "equal access", and would quite possibly result in changes to the DAS system also.

I'm willing to bet that Disney's legal department is (or will be) looking at this, and how any full-scale changes in access might impact the DAS prior to implementing it in a sweeping fashion US-wide.

 

[mamabunny]

...And I can't even begin to comprehend what they are saying in the patent, can you explain that one in plain English please?

Not a patent attorney, and I don't play one on TV, but near as I can tell, it describes a computer system (ie: computers/ tied to a network/that also includes Guests mobile devices) that will in turn use proprietary software (on Disney's computers, and Guests mobile devices) designed to sort through Guest requests for an attraction, and build groups for a virtual queue, so that the Guests don't have to wait in line - they can go do other things (including, potentially, joining *other* virtual queues for other rides/attractions). The "system" will notify Guests via their mobile devices (and presumably the App that interfaces to the "computer system") when their group will be ready to enter the ride/attraction, allowing the Guest to wait outside standard queue environment.

So yeah, it's a patent for proprietary software that is going to allow Disney to virtually manage Guest requests for virtual queues, and it sounds like potentially 2 (or maybe even more?) queues at a time.

Basically, it is a DAS type system for the entire Park, and all Guests who participate. Whether or not it will impact DAS as it is currently implemented is not mentioned at all that I could find.

 

[DisneyOma]

Not sure, but I think it won't be able to trump DAS per se - because the DAS is intended to give *equal* access - so anything that gives access above/beyond that (even if a paid option) might be interpreted as expanding the scope of how the DAS is implemented/used to offer "equal access", and would quite possibly result in changes to the DAS system also.

I'm willing to bet that Disney's legal department is (or will be) looking at this, and how any full-scale changes in access might impact the DAS prior to implementing it in a sweeping fashion US-wide.

If DAS offers access that others have to pay for then wouldn't people have to have written proof of a disability? Like getting in free to National Parks with an HC placard, etc.

And Disney has already made it mandatory for those with a DAS to have to get a boarding pass along with everyone else for RotR - so they could do that for their new standby queue system as well. They already do it, and it doesn't seem like it's a big issue for DAS holders as they are given equal access to the boarding pass.

 

[Evita_W]

If DAS offers access that others have to pay for then wouldn't people have to have written proof of a disability? Like getting in free to National Parks with an HC placard, etc.

And Disney has already made it mandatory for those with a DAS to have to get a boarding pass along with everyone else for RotR - so they could do that for their new standby queue system as well. They already do it, and it doesn't seem like it's a big issue for DAS holders as they are given equal access to the boarding pass.

It depends on if others can access the attraction for free or not. If they can, then there would have to be access that is equal to that which doesn't cost money, but they could require proof to obtain the paid level of access.

If everyone has to pay, they don't have to make access free, but if the system needs accomodations made.to.make access equal, then proof cannot be required.

In short there always has to be a system to provide equal access in which a doctor's note is not required. Now in some cases regular access may be sufficient, in which case no special system is required.

 

[Evita_W]

Not a patent attorney, and I don't play one on TV, but near as I can tell, it describes a computer system (ie: computers/ tied to a network/that also includes Guests mobile devices) that will in turn use proprietary software (on Disney's computers, and Guests mobile devices) designed to sort through Guest requests for an attraction, and build groups for a virtual queue, so that the Guests don't have to wait in line - they can go do other things (including, potentially, joining *other* virtual queues for other rides/attractions). The "system" will notify Guests via their mobile devices (and presumably the App that interfaces to the "computer system") when their group will be ready to enter the ride/attraction, allowing the Guest to wait outside standard queue environment.

So yeah, it's a patent for proprietary software that is going to allow Disney to virtually manage Guest requests for virtual queues, and it sounds like potentially 2 (or maybe even more?) queues at a time.

Basically, it is a DAS type system for the entire Park, and all Guests who participate. Whether or not it will impact DAS as it is currently implemented is not mentioned at all that I could find.

I guess I just don't understand how that is any different from what they have in place now for virtual queues.

 

[Mamabun]

But they are now using what they call a "reverse wait" system.

Legoland used to use this system (last time I recall using it was Legoland CA in 2017). It worked quite well, and while it didn’t change how much waiting we did, it was a much smoother day, just picking the ride you want to ride now, especially with an unpredictable child with us, was a big help.

 

[DisneyOma]

It depends on if others can access the attraction for free or not. If they can, then there would have to be access that is equal to that which doesn't cost money, but they could require proof to obtain the paid level of access.

If everyone has to pay, they don't have to make access free, but if the system needs accomodations made.to.make access equal, then proof cannot be required.

In short there always has to be a system to provide equal access in which a doctor's note is not required. Now in some cases regular access may be sufficient, in which case no special system is required.

That's exactly the opposite of how the National Parks access is done. Are you sure you are correct, because to me it sounds like you have it backwards.