FP + What we know and what we want to know

[HelenParr]

yes and no.

I am still looking for a balanced answer that would turn a first time guest into a repeat guest and keep the repeat guest generally happy. I dont think making no changes at all to FP system would be a balance between the two.

They aren't changing FP to balance out the sweet spot between keeping guests and attracting new ones (or making new guests repeat guests). They are changing FP because it fits into the overall new tech vision that supports pre-planning your trip. The billion dollars is for the entire tech upgrade. A tech upgrade that many have noted seems to be poorly managed and poorly handled. My profile has been in and out of MDE several times, and my password had to be reset (again and again) in the last month, my AP link has been in/out because their tech upgrade is horribly, awfully bad. It does work on my ipad, it does not work on my HTC phone.

It is, of course, rational for Disney to come into the present with tech, they cannot stay so far behind forever. But they have not earned any trust that they know what they are doing, why they are doing it, or that they have identified upside potential - including on FP+. Crashing the site when FLE AP sign up happened, and not having enough capcity for wi-fi at peak times seems to indicate they are not thinking it all through.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But that wouldnt alleviate the frustration of the initial guest denied the FP because someone decided to act as an FP distributor. And if that guest and other like him are being surveyed by Disney and they identify that as a major point of dissatisfaction, then becomes an area of concern for Disney.

How would the guest who didn't get a FP know it was because the guest in front of him was going to give the FP away? The only way the denied guest could give that kind of feedback to Disney is if the denied guest knew what the guest in front of them was doing with the FP.

Otherwise they may be dissatisfied that they didn't get a FP, but if the person before them got one and rode themselves they'd still be unhappy that they didn't get a FP. FP+ isn't changing ride capacity..capacity is finite.

 

[dadddio]

I think the balanced solution has been presented here by many people already, a combination of prebooked FP+ and in-park FP+.

If people standing in line aren't able to spend money, then why not eliminate the standby line entirely!

I've been wondering if that's not what we are really moving towards.

Insteadwaiting in a 90 minute SB line, you would simply be assigned a return time 90 minutes from now. Now you have 90 minutes to go spend money.

 

[Sydnerella]

Obviously, the FP system IS the primary focus of this thread.

But, to my mind, a complete reworking of the FP system is not necessarily a cure-all
(or even an appropriate cure, period) for the ills in question.

The new FP+ rules (as we know them at this point...) severely disturbs a group of guests that was pretty "happy" before, and drags their experience down to a level that matches folks who either don't know the difference, don't bother to research, or don't care enough to take advantage of a wide-open FP system that has worked pretty well for over a decade.

The "spread the misery" approach is not exactly "fair" to anyone, IMO.

Exactly - as we have come to expect from you!

Seems interesting for Disney to exact a socialist policy for the primary purpose of increasing their capitalist profits... which is also SO disappointing... One FP+ per day for a favorite ride? Micromanaging my trip to be less of what my family wants for the same and likely more money makes me very unhappy.

Sydnerella's Mama

 

[UNCFanatik]

Obviously, the FP system IS the primary focus of this thread.

But, to my mind, a complete reworking of the FP system is not necessarily a cure-all
(or even an appropriate cure, period) for the ills in question.

The new FP+ rules (as we know them at this point...) severely disturbs a group of guests that was pretty "happy" before, and drags their experience down to a level that matches folks who either don't know the difference, don't bother to research, or don't care enough to take advantage of a wide-open FP system that has worked pretty well for over a decade.

The "spread the misery" approach is not exactly "fair" to anyone, IMO.

We will have to agree to disagree about how well FP has worked in the past. I think it has worked extremely well for a portion of WDW guests but it has been abused in one form or another. I think a rework was due for the FP system.

Personally however, I do think that the 3 FP+ limitation with one E ticket is too restrictive. I would hope that they would expand that number down the road. I do think that people who do the research and get up early for RD should be rewarded for their work but I do not think that other guest should have to be penalized because of the abuse of the FP system.

I know I keep going back to this example but it is applicable. I am a planner. I research whatever vacation I am going on. I want to maximize my money and my experience. On my daughter's first trip to Disney when she was 6, she wanted to eat in the castle with the princesses. I planned the trip a year in advance. I researched. I knew i had to get up at a certain time x number days before the date i wanted the CRT ressie. I "put the work in". The morning of the call. I turned on the weather channel for the official time, used my landline and my cell. My wife used her cell phone as well. Nope, we could not manage to get a CRT ressie for that trip. And part of that was because a group of people abused the CRT ressie process and put it upon themselves to spread "pixie dust" and monopolize the limited number of CRT ressies for a given day. Hard to go online and look in their forum at the time and see them bragging about the CRT ressies they got and were giving away on a whim. The Breakfast Angels. Not very heavenly for me or my daughter.

Any FP abuse, as with any other abuse of Disney policy does affect others.

 

[jade1]

Hey, I liked John Carter and so did everyone else I knew that went and saw it.

Oh you misunderstood, I meant some parts were funny. I'm sure JC2 is in the works.

 

[UNCFanatik]

That really only applies if one is hoarding fastpasses, though. If I am in the park at 11am and pull a 12:10-1:10 fastpass, and then (for example) my child has a meltdown and I have to leave the park I have two choices.

#1. Just leave and don't use the FP. End result: Wasted FP. Truly preventing someone from getting a FP, since that FP slot ends up unused by anyone.

#2. Hand FPs to another family on our way out of the park. I can't use the FP, though I'd pulled it with the intent of using it - at this point the only way that slot gets used is if I hand our FPs to people who can use them.

Or in the scenario I mentioned earlier - DH and I would frequently get one on our way otu of the park to hand to someone. At DLR on our last visit,, we got one for Indiana Jones. We picked up the FP as we were walking to Main Street (probably around 11am or so), and the return time was for about an hour or two later. This is no different than the couple we gave them to walking up to the FP machine and getting one themselves - except that now they know about FP if they didn't before.

As I have said before, I understand why someone would give away an FP if they truly intended to ride but something unforeseen happened.

in your examples:

1. If you throw away an FP, the FP line moves faster and so does SB line. Maybe by a fraction but multiply that by several other guests.
2. The FP slot does not need to be used. Nothing is wasted and it has an greater effect on more guests than that one family who was gifted an FP.

 

[Sydnerella]

And part of that was because a group of people abused the CRT ressie process and put it upon themselves to spread "pixie dust" and monopolize the limited number of CRT ressies for a given day. Hard to go online and look in their forum at the time and see them bragging about the CRT ressies they got and were giving away on a whim. The Breakfast Angels. Not very heavenly for me or my daughter.

Any FP abuse, as with any other abuse of Disney policy does affect others.

Really? How on earth would you know that is the reason you did not secure the ressie???

Did you follow the pixie dust trail? That particular post told you they got a huge amount of ressies and gave them away for your only available date for a CRT meal?

Honestly, I strongly doubt that pixie dust ressies and fastpasses are a serious problem. FPs that would have gone unused in my family due to a conflict and cranky child were given to another family we ran into - two times in 5 trips. How selfish of us!

Starting to get a clearer picture of the foundation of your posts though...

Sydnerella's Mama

 

[UNCFanatik]

Really? How on earth would you know that is the reason you did not secure the ressie???

Did you follow the pixie dust trail?

Honestly, I strongly doubt that pixie dust ressies and fastpasses are a serious problem. FPs that would have gone unused in my family due to a conflict and cranky child were given to another family we ran into - two times in 5 trips. How selfish of us!

Starting to get a clearer picture of the foundation of your posts though...

Sydnerella's Mama

Are you really saying the the Breakfast Angels had no negative effect on others getting CRT ressies at the time? I know you really dont believe that. And the CRT matter was a serious problem at the time and Disney did change the reservation policy for CRT because of the Breakfast Angels.

And if the FPs would have remained unused, it would have benefited more guests so it was selfish of you actually. And yes, whether you like it or not, you violated the terms on the FP and abused Disney FP policy.

 

[danceintherain]

Bottom line is there is one reason and one reason only that Disney will roll out any changes and that is that it will increase its profits over the long term.

They aren't necessarily thinking about a year or two, but 5-10 years away what today's changes will mean for profits then.

As for selling out, my guess is that Disney will hold a certain number of reservations for day of (which is what they should do for the restaurants as well). This will prevent them from being completely sold out.

I would also imagine the 3 limit will be 3 per day in advance and then day of will have similar limitations to what the current FPs have. They could even make it where park hopping isn't restricted for day of reservations.

While I can see how holding reservations would help where FP is concerned, I can't see it for the restaurants. ALL the ADRs are very rarely taken. It's just a matter of walking into a park on a given day and finding a place with availability that you want to eat. If they held back some reservations for walk ins, then they risk some seats not getting taken. Most people want to eat at their "normal" time, so they walk up to restaurants promptly at noon and want to be accommodated. If no one walks up between 11am and noon, then the 11:30 slot would get wasted, and people could end up waiting HOURS to get seated. Blocking out all the Noon ADRs just for day of reservations doesn't make sense either, because if someone is willing to make the ADR in advance, then there's no reason to leave it to chance that day, when some people don't eat TS in the parks at all.

Applied to FP it does make some sense, especially since they seem to be broadening their approach. The idea is that EVERY person to go to the parks can have 3 FPs, then at some point the only leftovers might be prime firework viewing location or a show that seats 1000 per showing, but it's unlikely that they would ALL fill up in advance. I expect they'll have FP kiosks for those of us who don't have their smart phone on their hip at all times to make FP reservations at the beginning of the day.
I still don't see them holding back popular FPs just for the sake of the last minute or non-planners, but I doubt it will sell out in the manner that ADRs do, because of volume, the 3 FP limit, and the fact that MOST people are not going to have the forethought to book their FPs in advance.
Granted, the likelihood of sellout will likely vary from park to park, as some have fewer FP attractions in general.

 

[redrosesix]

Obviously, the FP system IS the primary focus of this thread.

But, to my mind, a complete reworking of the FP system is not necessarily a cure-all
(or even an appropriate cure, period) for the ills in question.

The new FP+ rules (as we know them at this point...) severely disturbs a group of guests that was pretty "happy" before, and drags their experience down to a level that matches folks who either don't know the difference, don't bother to research, or don't care enough to take advantage of a wide-open FP system that has worked pretty well for over a decade.

The "spread the misery" approach is not exactly "fair" to anyone, IMO.

This.

I know FP+ might be helpful to me in some ways, since I'm a hopper and tbh I'd rather not be the FP runner anymore (I always am because I don't get lost) so having a kiosk works for me too. But we like the way the old system works for us. This change seriously has me re-thinking DVC right now -- we were going to buy in next month, and since we can't buy from here that means we'll be waiting at least a year.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that WDW doesn't care if we cut back our park days and spend some at Universal because we're frustrated with SB lines -- they make much more from us in the first few days of a park pass. And people will always stay Value because it's affordable, but many people will upgrade so their trip won't suck. And once you're staying Deluxe you may as well buy DDP since the TS's are right in your hotel. It really is all about money -- getting people to buy really expensive short trips rather than the long inexpensive trips that we've been taking. Just like those people who stay at the Hard Rock to get the FOTL pass, but only for a few days.

Yes, I was happy, and yes, I'm quite sure I won't be next year if we stay at WDW. Time to invest in the 7 day access pass and finally get ourselves to Busch Gardens.

 

[doggydoc]

Not very heavenly for me or my daughter.

Any FP abuse, as with any other abuse of Disney policy does affect others.

I see where your bitterness comes from now. What you experienced was indeed abuse of the ADR system. Personally I think the practice of hoarding FP's before the time enforcement was an abuse but it was one Disney allowed so... That practice is now not allowed as has been pointed out, and ignored by you, to the point of being ridiculous.

Getting up early, going to the parks and getting FP's for rides you are going to ride, at the time your allotted on the ticket is NOT however abuse. It is using the system as it was designed. If it was such a problem why didn't they increase the interim before you can get another FP? They haven't that I can tell in the decade I have been going to Disney.

 

[Angel Ariel]

2. The FP slot does not need to be used. Nothing is wasted and it has an great effect on more guests than that one family who was gifted an FP.

How is the FP slot not wasted? Using another poster's previous example, if I were to grab the last FP of the day for an attraction and then not use it (when there was someone behind me who would have wanted it) how is that not a waste? The FP doesn't go back into the system..there's not somehow one more than there would have been, and it doesn't change the length of the stand by line..

 

[Sydnerella]

Sharing is good.

In the FP sense it was nice IMO, call me an abuser if you wish, I disagree with the implication

and in the testimonial-personal experience sense it explains alot of the bitterness...

 

[pixiechick]

I recently took advantage of the DVC PAP deal. Now, after having spent well over $1k on passes, I have no way currently to take advantage of FP+.

I have no ticket to tie to my reservation until the day I show up at the parks and activate the APs. I really have to wonder if there is a connection there. I'm not sure of a motive, but the timing seems interesting. Create a whole group of people who can't use the system at roll out.

 

[Tink10]

Wow...

I never knew that I was being so naughty by giving away FastPasses to families who could use them when I decided to leave....

I know better now.

 

[redrosesix]

I recently took advantage of the DVC PAP deal. Now, after having spent well over $1k on passes, I have no way currently to take advantage of FP+.

I have no ticket to tie to my reservation until the day I show up at the parks and activate the APs. I really have to wonder if there is a connection there. I'm not sure of a motive, but the timing seems interesting. Create a whole group of people who can't use the system at roll out.

...a whole group of (experienced WDW guests) who can't use the system at roll out....

hmmm

 

[doconeill]

I recently took advantage of the DVC PAP deal. Now, after having spent well over $1k on passes, I have no way currently to take advantage of FP+.

I have no ticket to tie to my reservation until the day I show up at the parks and activate the APs. I really have to wonder if there is a connection there. I'm not sure of a motive, but the timing seems interesting. Create a whole group of people who can't use the system at roll out.

Right now no one can take advantage of it. And if mousermerf is right, the first people to utilize the real system won't even know it until they check in.

If you got the passes mailed to you, you should be able to use the ticket codes to enter them. You may need to go to the passholder web site and convince it to ask you for them - not sure how it works since the redesign, but I got mine in the day before the change and now it is in my profile. The rest of my family isn't yet.

If you ordered them will-call, then Disney will need to provide a way for you to get the required information. That still has to be worked on.

 

[clareita]

We will have to agree to disagree about how well FP has worked in the past. I think it has worked extremely well for a portion of WDW guests but it has been abused in one form or another. I think a rework was due for the FP system.

Can you please clarify what you mean by abuse of the FP system? If you mean people using FPs after their return window, that was fixed months ago. If you mean people who give FPs to others, you must be joking. There is no way that WDW is filled with noble travelers with a Tinkerbell fixation who want to spend their day spreading "pixie dust." Is there a tiny, and statistically insignificant, number of individuals doing this? Sure, but like I said, these people can't possibly exist in numbers large enough to affect the efficiency and integrity of the FP system.

 

[DizDragonfly]

That being said, I think that many of those posts were related to (individual powerusers/uberusers/superusers/elite) decrying that this is changing how they prefer to tour, not that their current method is inherently wrong or that they are 'bad'.

Really?

So you're okay with having the ethics and morals of a publicly traded corporation?

I could be wrong, but I think mousermerf was definitely implying that "superusers" are "bad".